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Arab Spring, Round 2

Started by Savonarola, June 28, 2013, 01:24:30 PM

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Savonarola

And some Monday morning quarter-backing from CNN:

QuoteObama missed out on Arab Spring
 

By Frida Ghitis, Special to CNN

updated 4:42 PM EDT, Wed July 3, 2013


Editor's note: Frida Ghitis is a world affairs columnist for The Miami Herald and World Politics Review. A former CNN producer and correspondent, she is the author of "The End of Revolution: A Changing World in the Age of Live Television." Follow her on Twitter: @FridaGColumns.

(CNN) -- The 2011 Arab uprisings presented the United States with a historic opportunity to take a clear stand on the side of freedom and democracy and strengthen its own standing in the process. Incredibly, the Obama administration has blundered and stumbled, with a response marked by timidity and caution.

As a result, America appears weaker, less influential and less trusted, while the Arab Middle East continues to seethe with instability and violence.

Today, as the Egyptian state shudders, with millions taking to the streets infuriated with a government that is taking the country down a path they do not trust, and as Syrians continue to slaughter each other, with death toll approaching 100,000, there is no side in the conflicts that feels warmly toward America.


The most astonishing part is that the uprisings across the Middle East and North Africa were launched by young, progressive idealists, whose objective was to reshape their countries by overthrowing entrenched dictators and bringing pluralism and democracy.

The DNA of the revolution made it a natural for American support.

Granted, the uprisings also targeted strong American allies, such as Egypt's now-deposed president, Hosni Mubarak. But once the dictator fell, America should have made a much stronger case for the fundamental principles of liberal democracy.

It is extraordinary this is happening under Obama, the leader who took the dramatic step of traveling to Cairo just months into his first term and delivering a landmark speech that vowed to end the "cycle of suspicion and discord" between Americans and Muslims, and affirmed his belief that all people "yearn for certain things," including freedom, democracy, and genuine justice.

When the people took the reins of history into their own hands, Obama's poetry crashed into geopolitical realities, not to mention domestic political considerations.

The choices, in fairness, were not easy. But Obama could have done much better.

Coup worsens Obama's Egypt policy headache

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, a group with a deeply anti-Western, anti-American ideology, won the elections. Washington was right in trying to work with a government that had been elected by the Egyptian people. But it went too far, ignoring the fundamental principles of democracy that America should have kept at the forefront of the agenda.

Washington had to work with Cairo -- and hence, with the government of President Mohammed Morsy -- but it didn't have to keep as quiet as it did when Morsy and his supporters started pushing away from democratic principles, undermining freedoms and laying the groundwork for a state that would change the character of the country. The pan-Islamist vision of the Brotherhood is deeply offensive to supporters of equality for women, legal protections for minorities, free media, and respect for the views of the opposition.

Instead, in pursuit of stability, the U.S. held its tongue. Occasionally, American officials spoke out, as when the ambassador to Egypt, Anne Patterson, told a small group in Alexandria that "democracy needs a healthy and active civil society."

But when the government went after that same civil society, arresting and then convicting 43 members of nongovernmental organizations -- including 16 Americans -- and sentencing them to prison terms on sham charges, the U.S. kept its voice low, to the dismay of its friends.

The Obama administration has been so timid, so eager to stay out of the fray, that a few weeks before the verdict against the pro-democracy activists, Secretary of State John Kerry passed up the opportunity to take a stand for the workers, and for democracy, by quietly waiving the human rights preconditions of U.S. aid to Egypt and thus allowing $1.3 billion in aid to go forward.

There were better ways to play that hand. America threw away its aces.

In Syria, the U.S. passed up for too long the opportunity to support the most liberal of rebels fighting against the dictator Bashar al-Assad, allowing extremist radicals to dominate the opposition. Now the choices are far more difficult, and America's standing is in tatters with the people who should have been its natural allies.

The oversimplified equation says the country has to choose between its ideals and its interests. But in the case of the Arab uprisings, America's ideals and interests overlap. If Washington stood more convincingly with those who share its ideals, it would strengthen them within their revolutions. It would help them to victory, and then America would become stronger, having real friends in power in the post-revolutionary Middle East.

It's not too late for a course correction.

Personally I think that democracy dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood was going to go badly for Egypt and no matter what Barack did the results would have been the same.  As president, though, every problem in the world is Barack's personal responsibility and for that reason he has to be blamed.   

Shame on you Obama.  :mad: :mad: :mad:
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Admiral Yi

 :mad: He should have engaged.  Or shown more leadership.  Preferably both.

mongers

Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on July 03, 2013, 03:22:00 PM


Where's my main man Tantawi? Who's this young whippersnapper?

Now see, that's the kind of guy US policy should be supporting.  Look at that over-sized beret.  Those masculine collar boards.  Those epaulettes you could do a half-gainer off of.

Now that's the kind of strongman we want there.

He fails on one detail, no moustache.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Savonarola on July 03, 2013, 04:33:12 PM
Personally I think that democracy dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood was going to go badly for Egypt and no matter what Barack did the results would have been the same.  As president, though, every problem in the world is Barack's personal responsibility and for that reason he has to be blamed.   

Shame on you Obama.  :mad: :mad: :mad:

Yeah, whatever, CNN.

We back US-friendly strongmen, we're the bad guys.
We back the democratically elected government even though they're fundie Islamotards, we're the bad guys.
We "take stand for the workers, and for democracy, by quietly waiving the human rights preconditions of U.S. aid to Egypt" then we're meddling with the legitimate government, and we're the bad guys.
We do nothing, we're the bad guys.

As long as we back the existence of Israel, we can't win in any of those asswiping-with-their-left-hand shitholes over there.  Fucking Arabs.

katmai

Then it is obvious what we need to do.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

CountDeMoney

We're still a nation full of Jews.  The Arabs truly believe that, and since it's an Arab conspiracy theory, it's legitimate.

CountDeMoney

Holy shit, I think Richard Engel just got finger gang-banged.

mongers

Holy shit, someone on Facebook who knows a lot of protester types actually posted something quite reasonable and nuanced about the events in Egypt, rather than just egging on the protesters.   :hmm:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

katmai

Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2013, 05:19:10 PM
We're still a nation full of Jews.  The Arabs truly believe that, and since it's an Arab conspiracy theory, it's legitimate.

I still say give up Siege to his Camel Jockey Cousins.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

CountDeMoney

Quote from: katmai on July 03, 2013, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2013, 05:19:10 PM
We're still a nation full of Jews.  The Arabs truly believe that, and since it's an Arab conspiracy theory, it's legitimate.

I still say give up Siege to his Camel Jockey Cousins.

Talk to the Chinese.  They have first dibs on him.

DGuller

Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2013, 05:25:45 PM
Quote from: katmai on July 03, 2013, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2013, 05:19:10 PM
We're still a nation full of Jews.  The Arabs truly believe that, and since it's an Arab conspiracy theory, it's legitimate.

I still say give up Siege to his Camel Jockey Cousins.

Talk to the Chinese.  They have first dibs on him.
Siege, when dealing with Chinese, you have to impress them.  You have to make them think you're a tiger.

The Brain

We could divert the Nile. This would solve many problems.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: The Brain on July 03, 2013, 05:37:58 PM
We could divert the Nile. This would solve many problems.
Blow up the dam?

That would be genocide on an unprecedented scale.  :mad:
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

The Brain

Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 03, 2013, 05:39:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 03, 2013, 05:37:58 PM
We could divert the Nile. This would solve many problems.
Blow up the dam?

That would be genocide on an unprecedented scale.  :mad:

Only in the loosest sense of the word.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Razgovory

This is what happens when you pick weirdo indie rockers in your election.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017