Texas tampers with vote date - still fails

[Valmy]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

The noose is tightening.  It will be very easy to protest and harrass anybody using the remaining 5. 

I would feel much better about it if they were also working to provide cheap birth control and contraceptives to poor women so as to help make abortions less necessary...but naturally they have been attacking those programs as well.  Which is just lunacy from a public policy perspective.  Under Governor Perry our public education spending, and other programs for children, have been in a state of constant crisis and he has done little besides hammer anybody who has tried to address the problem (including his own Lt. Governor).  So I am not exactly sure what the plan is besides see if we can have as many children in poverty with as few educational opportunities and as poor health care as possible.  Seems a recipe for social disaster, I am not sure what they are thinking.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

I'm not sure that's really so bad. Something that seems ignored in these debates is the fact that in Europe there are a lot of restrictions on abortions, especially after 12 weeks, and they are rarely performed in clinic settings like in the United States. No one ever argues that Europe is an anti-choice continent, so I don't actually think a tightening of abortion restrictions is such a bad thing. They should be moved to surgical clinics and hospitals. The reason they are done in small Planned Parenthood clinics and outpatient centers in the United States is primarily because hospitals and the better doctors that work in them and have privileges with hospitals don't want to touch abortion. It's too much trouble and they make better money doing other stuff that doesn't involve walking through a picket line every day at work.

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

[merithyn]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

I'm not sure that's really so bad. Something that seems ignored in these debates is the fact that in Europe there are a lot of restrictions on abortions, especially after 12 weeks, and they are rarely performed in clinic settings like in the United States. No one ever argues that Europe is an anti-choice continent, so I don't actually think a tightening of abortion restrictions is such a bad thing. They should be moved to surgical clinics and hospitals. The reason they are done in small Planned Parenthood clinics and outpatient centers in the United States is primarily because hospitals and the better doctors that work in them and have privileges with hospitals don't want to touch abortion. It's too much trouble and they make better money doing other stuff that doesn't involve walking through a picket line every day at work.

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

You say that as if the state - in particular, the state of TEXAS - actually:

a) Cares about the health of these women
b) Wants to fix access problems
c) Has any interest whatsoever in preventing poor women from having children (See: Valmy's post)

[Fate]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

I'm not sure that's really so bad. Something that seems ignored in these debates is the fact that in Europe there are a lot of restrictions on abortions, especially after 12 weeks, and they are rarely performed in clinic settings like in the United States. No one ever argues that Europe is an anti-choice continent, so I don't actually think a tightening of abortion restrictions is such a bad thing. They should be moved to surgical clinics and hospitals. The reason they are done in small Planned Parenthood clinics and outpatient centers in the United States is primarily because hospitals and the better doctors that work in them and have privileges with hospitals don't want to touch abortion. It's too much trouble and they make better money doing other stuff that doesn't involve walking through a picket line every day at work.

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

My major problem with the bill isn't the >20 week restriction. There are so few abortions past that point it's almost irrelevant. And most of those cases are fetuses with severe genetic defects who are probably going to die quickly anyway when nature takes its course post-partum. The bigger issue is the surgical center requirement.

You don't need to be in a surgical center for a medically induced abortion on an early term pregnancy. It's ridiculous. When someone miscarries the natural way they are allowed to do so in the privacy of their own home. A clinic is sufficient. You're married to an ob/gyn right? Hopefully this shit is making her livid.

The five remaining centers aren't going to be able to handle the volume. And a lot of women seeking an abortion aren't going to be able to make the trips. For example Odessa/Midland and Lubbock each had one PP clinic that could do abortions. Now the nearest facility will be 6 hours away in Dallas, assuming you can even get an appointment. Hurrah for more unwanted births! I'm sure it'll do great things for society.

The other problem with this bill is requiring a physician to have admitting privileges at a hospital. They don't have them now in communities like the one I live in because there are no permanent OB/gyns in the area who provide abortions. PP staffs their clinics with rotating physicians from out of town so that the batshit crazies can't protest their homes / harass their kids & spouse / disrupt utheir general OB/gyn practice.

[Barrister]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

I'm not sure that's really so bad. Something that seems ignored in these debates is the fact that in Europe there are a lot of restrictions on abortions, especially after 12 weeks, and they are rarely performed in clinic settings like in the United States. No one ever argues that Europe is an anti-choice continent, so I don't actually think a tightening of abortion restrictions is such a bad thing. They should be moved to surgical clinics and hospitals. The reason they are done in small Planned Parenthood clinics and outpatient centers in the United States is primarily because hospitals and the better doctors that work in them and have privileges with hospitals don't want to touch abortion. It's too much trouble and they make better money doing other stuff that doesn't involve walking through a picket line every day at work.

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

My major problem with the bill isn't the >20 week restriction. There are so few abortions past that point it's almost irrelevant. And most of those cases are fetuses with severe genetic defects who are probably going to die quickly anyway when nature takes its course post-partum. The bigger issue is the surgical center requirement.

You don't need to be in a surgical center for a medically induced abortion on an early term pregnancy. It's ridiculous. When someone miscarries the natural way they are allowed to do so in the privacy of their own home. A clinic is sufficient. You're married to an ob/gyn right? Hopefully this shit is making her livid.

The five remaining centers aren't going to be able to handle the volume. And a lot of women seeking an abortion aren't going to be able to make the trips. For example Odessa/Midland and Lubbock each had one PP clinic that could do abortions. Now the nearest facility will be 6 hours away in Dallas, assuming you can even get an appointment. Hurrah for more unwanted births! I'm sure it'll do great things for society.

Surgical centres - this one came up in the Kermit Gosnell trial.  During a routine abortion , no it's fine, but it's not unheard of for there to be serous complications.  A "natural" abortion is "allowed" to happen at home because they rarely know what's happening until it's too late.

[Fate]

Says that you can only perform abortions in surgical clinics.

Effectively shuts down all but 5 abortion providers in the state.

I'm not sure that's really so bad. Something that seems ignored in these debates is the fact that in Europe there are a lot of restrictions on abortions, especially after 12 weeks, and they are rarely performed in clinic settings like in the United States. No one ever argues that Europe is an anti-choice continent, so I don't actually think a tightening of abortion restrictions is such a bad thing. They should be moved to surgical clinics and hospitals. The reason they are done in small Planned Parenthood clinics and outpatient centers in the United States is primarily because hospitals and the better doctors that work in them and have privileges with hospitals don't want to touch abortion. It's too much trouble and they make better money doing other stuff that doesn't involve walking through a picket line every day at work.

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

My major problem with the bill isn't the >20 week restriction. There are so few abortions past that point it's almost irrelevant. And most of those cases are fetuses with severe genetic defects who are probably going to die quickly anyway when nature takes its course post-partum. The bigger issue is the surgical center requirement.

You don't need to be in a surgical center for a medically induced abortion on an early term pregnancy. It's ridiculous. When someone miscarries the natural way they are allowed to do so in the privacy of their own home. A clinic is sufficient. You're married to an ob/gyn right? Hopefully this shit is making her livid.

The five remaining centers aren't going to be able to handle the volume. And a lot of women seeking an abortion aren't going to be able to make the trips. For example Odessa/Midland and Lubbock each had one PP clinic that could do abortions. Now the nearest facility will be 6 hours away in Dallas, assuming you can even get an appointment. Hurrah for more unwanted births! I'm sure it'll do great things for society.

Surgical centres - this one came up in the Kermit Gosnell trial.  During a routine abortion , no it's fine, but it's not unheard of for there to be serous complications.  A "natural" abortion is "allowed" to happen at home because they rarely know what's happening until it's too late.

No, they usually do know well before hand. The process takes many hours. They usually come into the ER bleeding through their fun hole. We stick a speculum in their fun hole and observe an open cervix. We tell them they have something called an incomplete abortion and that their pregnancy is non-viable. We give them some pills to help speed the expulsion process along. They go home. Conceptus is expelled. We don't admit them to a surgical center for observation.

[Jacob]

And if that doesn't work, just forge the results. Not a problem!

Hell, if you are willing to simply forge the results, why, you can get all kinds of great legislation passed!

That sounds like something Bolsheviks might do...

[Jacob]

Just have the government take over Planned Parenthood and have them run a network of member doctors who can do the procedure in hospitals around the country and you fix all the access problems and get rid of our provincial clinic system.

Somehow I don't think that's going to happen in Texas.

[Admiral Yi]

That sounds like something Bolsheviks might do...

Exactly.  Both are undemocratic.  Yet it seems only one is objectionable.

[merithyn]

Surgical centres - this one came up in the Kermit Gosnell trial.  During a routine abortion , no it's fine, but it's not unheard of for there to be serous complications. 

Then call an ambulance if there's a complication. A doctor doesn't need admitting privileges for that from their office. Why do they need it for this?

A "natural" abortion is "allowed" to happen at home because they rarely know what's happening until it's too late.

You're joking, right? When I lost my son at 17 weeks, they were more than happy to send me home to "wait it out" for up to six weeks while we waited for him to die and be expelled "naturally". (My water broke.) Luckily, my doctor took pity on me because of my three toddlers at home and did a D&C instead.

[Jacob]

Exactly.  Both are undemocratic.  Yet it seems only one is objectionable.

Let me guess which one you find objectionable: the people supporting the filibuster in Texas?

[Admiral Yi]

Let me guess which one you find objectionable: the people supporting the filibuster in Texas?

A better guess would be the two that I called undemocratic.

"Supporting the filibuster" is a nice euphemism.  Very Bolshevik.

[Razgovory]

That sounds like something Bolsheviks might do...

Exactly.  Both are undemocratic.  Yet it seems only one is objectionable.

Actually only one happens to be illegal.

[Admiral Yi]

Actually only one happens to be illegal.

Pretty sure that's not right.

[Siege]

Illegal immigrants = undocumented democrats