The future George Zimmerman Acquittal Trial Megathread!

[OttoVonBismarck]

His duty to flee would've been covered not only by not getting out of the car, but by the two opportunities Zimmerman had to make verbal contact with Martin and chose not to prior to the last encounter, according to his interview by Serino.

The interviewing detective didn't believe his bullshit, either.

I don't believe so, because in his narrative (which the prosecution was unable to disprove to a jury), he doesn't claim that the confrontation began when he got out of the car. To show that duty to flee was present when he stepped out of his car you'd have to show that Zimmerman was in fear for his life or limb at the moment he stepped out of the car. Duty to flee cannot apply before a rational person would have perceived danger.

Posit a state with a general duty to flee and no castle doctrine. If I see a shiftless drifter shambling by while I'm mowing the lawn, eye him cautiously, and continue on my way I don't think any reasonable person would believe I had a duty to flee at that moment. Nothing had happened to make me fear for my life. Since I live in the kind of place where we pay for people like that to not exist, I could call the police and report a suspicious person, but that doesn't mean myself or any other rational person would have a duty to flee. Because I've perceived no danger, as far as I know the drifter isn't dangerous. He just seems out of place and I worry he might commit a property crime (I would say, anyway, and you'd never prove otherwise.) So about ten minutes later, the drifter jumps out behind me and begins assaulting me, and successfully knocks me to the ground. I then am able to pull my gun out, shoot, and kill him.

At no point, even in a duty to flee state, could you have said such a duty had been imposed on me because there was no point at which any reasonable person would have seen a need to flee. Duty to flee doesn't mean that you have to have a perfect ability to predict the future or you lose the right to self defense. Duty to flee is for a situation like if I catch a drifter stealing something out of my garage and I chase him down, he pulls a knife on me and I shoot him. In a duty to flee jurisdiction I had no right to be chasing him in the first place, nor should I have. Or, if I'm in my car or something and someone attacks it with a baseball bat, I have a duty to drive off before I start shooting, since that's a reasonable avenue of escape in a situation like that.

Since you'd have to prove Zimmerman should have presciently known he would be attacked the moment he set foot out of his car, him setting foot out of his car isn't enough to prove he failed in his duty to flee. He wasn't in hot pursuit or trying to apprehend Martin (as we know, anyway.) I'm fairly confident given the narrative and the evidence even in a duty to flee state a prosecutor would have a lot of trouble convicting Zimmerman of any crime, his story sounds like it was crafted specifically to cover all such bases even though where he lived that was not necessary.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Shyster they interviewed on CNN said there's zero chance of a hate crime conviction.  Not only do they have to prove he wanted to kill Martin because he was black, but also that Z didn't act in self defense.

There's been several former federal prosecutors who have said the same thing. I think even like three guys that used to work for the civil rights criminal division have said it is highly unlikely Zimmerman could be successfully prosecuted on federal civil rights violations. It's basically like you said, it's like the Florida case with a much higher burden of proof, and they couldn't meet the burden in Florida. I've even heard it worded stronger, that the primary or motivating factor literally in the pull of Zimmerman's trigger must have been that Martin's skin was black. I don't see how you prove that based on the evidence unless the jury is a single guy who used to work in bail bonds and lives in Maryland.

[Admiral Yi]

 

You're pretty funny when you're not passed out drunk.

[derspiess]

Shyster they interviewed on CNN said there's zero chance of a hate crime conviction.  Not only do they have to prove he wanted to kill Martin because he was black, but also that Z didn't act in self defense.

Yeah, I think Holder's kind of in a corner.  You could tell he wanted to play to the crowd in his speech today and he sort of did so, while remaining vague and non-committal.  I bet he's hoping people will forget about it or be distracted by something else.

I heard the DOJ report said that Zimmerman acted out of a hero complex rather than seething racissism.

[Admiral Yi]

I think he's fine.  He says they're "investigating,"  then in a month or two when it's blown over he announces on a Friday afternoon that they're not pressing charges.

[derspiess]

I think he's fine.  He says they're "investigating,"  then in a month or two when it's blown over he announces on a Friday afternoon that they're not pressing charges.

He had to get up & say something to reassure the masses today.  Seems like they ate it up.

But you're right.  They'll announce it on a Friday afternoon when they dump the other documents, and most likely people will be focused on other things.

[Razgovory]

Shyster they interviewed on CNN said there's zero chance of a hate crime conviction.  Not only do they have to prove he wanted to kill Martin because he was black, but also that Z didn't act in self defense.

Well, no a hate crime thing wouldn't work since that's normally added onto to the ordinary crime.  He's already been cleared for murder.  What they could possibly do is charge him on a civil rights violations.  Depriving someone of the use of pubic property because of race.

[Siege]

and Raz, my thoughts on GZ and Trayvon's actions that night. I dont think I have stated it in this thread to date.

GZ: Dude was as fucked up as a football bat from the word go. Neighborhood watch, Observe and Report. GZ put himself in this situation because of his stupidity.

Trayvon: should have just run kid. Thug life is what cost you yours. Sad but true.

Bad judgement + Bad Judgement= Fucking Tragedy.

I'm not sure the kid was in the the "Thug life".  He was just some highschool kid.  He wasn't doing anything wrong, and I think he felt endangered by a guy stalking him and did what he could to defend himself.

Oh sure.
Two things he did in school, that we know of:
1- Was caught in school with stolen jewelry.
2- Was caught in school with marihuana.

He got suspended from school. That was it. No criminal charges.

In fact, he was as his father home because he had been suspended for a second time from school.

[CountDeMoney]

unless the jury is a single guy who used to work in bail bonds and lives in Maryland.

Shit, I could mail that in on Skype.  Just to make it easy for them, I wouldn't even have to pay attention all the time.

[Razgovory]

and Raz, my thoughts on GZ and Trayvon's actions that night. I dont think I have stated it in this thread to date.

GZ: Dude was as fucked up as a football bat from the word go. Neighborhood watch, Observe and Report. GZ put himself in this situation because of his stupidity.

Trayvon: should have just run kid. Thug life is what cost you yours. Sad but true.

Bad judgement + Bad Judgement= Fucking Tragedy.

I'm not sure the kid was in the the "Thug life".  He was just some highschool kid.  He wasn't doing anything wrong, and I think he felt endangered by a guy stalking him and did what he could to defend himself.

Oh sure.
Two things he did in school, that we know of:
1- Was caught in school with stolen jewelry.
2- Was caught in school with marihuana.

He got suspended from school. That was it. No criminal charges.

In fact, he was as his father home because he had been suspended for a second time from school.

Kids get rebellious and do stupid shit.  Not the same as doing drive bys and selling heroin on the street.

[The Minsky Moment]

I think he's fine.  He says they're "investigating,"  then in a month or two when it's blown over he announces on a Friday afternoon that they're not pressing charges.

Yes

[derspiess]

Piers Morgan is going to interview Rachel Jeantel this evening.  I'm sure she's getting her Piers nails done right now.

Wow, an even bigger train wreck than her testimony

[Caliga]

Was it real retarded?

[CountDeMoney]

Piers Morgan is going to interview Rachel Jeantel this evening.  I'm sure she's getting her Piers nails done right now.

Wow, an even bigger train wreck than her testimony

Why you gotta be like dat.

[Caliga]

I hope she called Piers a creepy ass cracker, since he is one.