The future George Zimmerman Acquittal Trial Megathread!

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm aware of several cases in recent years even here in Virginia where several young black men involved in the drug business killed someone and the cases ultimately went nowhere because of self defense claims. There was actually a guy I read about who finally went in for good after he beat his baby momma to death on the side of the road (she had insulted him in some way), who was basically known to police to have murdered two other men previously but both times they were the only witnesses and his self defense assertion ultimately resulted in him not even going to trial for murder. I think he did fall to felony gun charges but was out by the time he was beating his girlfriend to death.

[Barrister]

I'm aware of several cases in recent years even here in Virginia where several young black men involved in the drug business killed someone and the cases ultimately went nowhere because of self defense claims. There was actually a guy I read about who finally went in for good after he beat his baby momma to death on the side of the road (she had insulted him in some way), who was basically known to police to have murdered two other men previously but both times they were the only witnesses and his self defense assertion ultimately resulted in him not even going to trial for murder. I think he did fall to felony gun charges but was out by the time he was beating his girlfriend to death.

Self defence is a real bitch to work with (speaking as a prosecutor) because all the defence has to do is raise a doubt about whether or not it applies.  It's not something defence needs to prove.  It also provides a full defence.  It doesn't just reduce the severity of the crime.

That being said, I think the system works better if we run these kinds of trials and let the accused tell their story, under oath (and cross-examination), then to simply drop the case just because they are tricky.  There is nothing wrong with running a tough case and winding up with an acquittal.

[Valmy]

That being said, I think the system works better if we run these kinds of trials and let the accused tell their story, under oath (and cross-examination), then to simply drop the case just because they are tricky.  There is nothing wrong with running a tough case and winding up with an acquittal.

Well said sir.

[MadImmortalMan]

I don't know. I mean just having to stand trial is a deterrent. Nobody wants to have to go through that. You don't want to disincentivize acting in self-defence when doing so would be warranted and appropriate.

[Caliga]

I think if someone dies, a trial is probably called for in all but the most cut-and-dry cases (which this one definitely wasn't).  It's pretty easy to see why they didn't initially want to try him, though.

[frunk]

I don't know. I mean just having to stand trial is a deterrent. Nobody wants to have to go through that. You don't want to disincentivize acting in self-defence when doing so would be warranted and appropriate.

If my life was in danger I'd be willing to stand trial for trying to preserve it.

[Caliga]

I don't know. I mean just having to stand trial is a deterrent. Nobody wants to have to go through that. You don't want to disincentivize acting in self-defence when doing so would be warranted and appropriate.

If my life was in danger I'd be willing to stand trial for trying to preserve it.

@ your profile caption.

[Eddie Teach]

That being said, I think the system works better if we run these kinds of trials and let the accused tell their story, under oath (and cross-examination), then to simply drop the case just because they are tricky.  There is nothing wrong with running a tough case and winding up with an acquittal.

I don't think you should try them unless you think the self-defense claim is a load of hogwash.

[frunk]

@ your profile caption.

I've had it for a while but I guess I don't post that often.

[derspiess]

So has Seedy gone out wildin' yet?

[CountDeMoney]

I actually disagree in part with Andrew Cohen's point that this may have only happened in Florida. There's a good argument to be made that Zimmerman's story would have met the common law description of self defense in just about all fifty states and probably Canada too--as I don't see how getting your head slammed against concrete over and over again isn't an actual scenario where the courts would say the person was in fear of grievous harm or death.

No, not quite;  in many states the use of deadly force is warranted if you are in fear of grievous harm or death and there are no other reasonable means to extricate oneself from the situation available, e.g., trapped in a room on the 2nd floor of house with nowhere else to go.

And he sure as shit wouldn't have been able to get a concealed handgun permit with his record in many states to begin with.

[CountDeMoney]

So has Seedy gone out wildin' yet?

Too hot out.  Maybe in October, when the conference games really start to kick in.

[Valmy]

I don't know. I mean just having to stand trial is a deterrent. Nobody wants to have to go through that. You don't want to disincentivize acting in self-defence when doing so would be warranted and appropriate.

I would think actually killing somebody is already pretty disincentivizing and this would not really be a factor...and if it is not disincentivized for somebody then they probably need to be standing trial.  But really I am talking about weird shootings like this that happen in public not when it is obviously a home invasion or something.

[MadImmortalMan]

Well yes. I'm just thinking in a situation where you are risking your life by not using self-defense, you might hesitate and take the risk hoping it will turn out ok. And that might get you killed.

[Savonarola]

I saw this in the Detroit Free Press:  http://www.freep.com/article/20130714/NEWS01/307140134/George-Zimmerman-Travyon-Martin-verdict-Detroit

There were 411 murders in the city of Detroit last year; 386 of them were criminal, 25 justifiable.  Twenty percent of all murders in Detroit remain unsolved.  It struck me as strange that Detroiters would get so worked up about an injustice,  one thousand miles away; but are willing to put up with so much injustice in their own city without a rally or a protest.