Exodus International Shuts Down

[Eddie Teach]

It means that there is something in raising the children and the environment that causes it.  Of course it that was true why would children being raised in the same environment and the same people result in some being gay and some not?  Why would it result in second and third sons and so forth have a slightly higher chance? 

You can never cross the same river twice.

[Valmy]

It also is a little too much for my brain to comprehend that a kid who grows in an environment where gays are barely talked about except to refer to them as just about the worst thing you could be, where heterosexuality is advanced as the proper way God intended it would become gay...while a kid who is raised by two gay dads and spends his life being taken to pride events and spends his life amongst gay adults would then become straight.  I mean if it is these environmental factors how would the first lead to gayness while the other one would not?  I mean these environmental factors must be the most incomprehensible and most subtle and most mysterious factors in the history of psychology.

And I tend to be pretty predisposed to nature anyway.  So much of your personality is pretty evident almost from birth, babies even in the same families vary so much.  So I think it tends to get downplayed in people's desire to shape people to their liking.

[Valmy]

It means that there is something in raising the children and the environment that causes it.  Of course it that was true why would children being raised in the same environment and the same people result in some being gay and some not?  Why would it result in second and third sons and so forth have a slightly higher chance? 

You can never cross the same river twice.

A rolling stone gathers no moss.

[Josquius]

It means that there is something in raising the children and the environment that causes it.  Of course it that was true why would children being raised in the same environment and the same people result in some being gay and some not?  Why would it result in second and third sons and so forth have a slightly higher chance? 

They're in roughly the same environment but they have different environmental factors at play. One has an older brother, one a younger brother for instance. Not to mention all the tiny little experiences they have being differnet.

If it was true then all Exodus and the groups like it would need to do was intervene earlier and find the correct environmental triggers and correct them.  You know, if you want to prevent arms being cut off best to intervene with people who still have both arms.

Exodus and the like work with adults. They're already fully formed people.
In theory I suppose it might be possible to work out which factors increase the odds of homosexuality and which decrease it, but in practice that would be a pretty impossible experiment to set up. You'd need dozens of (clone) kids in minutely controlled Truman Showesque environments being raised by hyper advanced robots.

It also is a little too much for my brain to comprehend that a kid who grows in an environment where gays are barely talked about except to refer to them as just about the worst thing you could be, where heterosexuality is advanced as the proper way God intended it would become gay...while a kid who is raised by two gay dads and spends his life being taken to pride events and spends his life amongst gay adults would then become straight.  I mean if it is these environmental factors how would the first lead to gayness while the other one would not?  I mean these environmental factors must be the most incomprehensible and most subtle and most mysterious factors in the history of psychology.

The first doesn't lead to gayness and the second doesn't stop it. There are lots of other factors.
And yes. It is pretty deep stuff. Its the ultimate quesiton of psychology really, what makes our personalities what they are.

[Eddie Teach]

It also is a little too much for my brain to comprehend that a kid who grows in an environment where gays are barely talked about except to refer to them as just about the worst thing you could be, where heterosexuality is advanced as the proper way God intended it would become gay...while a kid who is raised by two gay dads and spends his life being taken to pride events and spends his life amongst gay adults would then become straight.  I mean if it is these environmental factors how would the first lead to gayness while the other one would not?  I mean these environmental factors must be the most incomprehensible and most subtle and most mysterious factors in the history of psychology.

Parents admonish their kids to do lots of things and kids frequently ignore them. Nobody is suggesting that the parents' views/teachings/rantings have any kind of direct impact like that.

[garbon]

Its the ultimate quesiton of psychology really, what makes our personalities what they are.

I'd say psychology is focused more broadly on why do people act the way they act, not stuck on personality traits.

[Razgovory]

Its the ultimate quesiton of psychology really, what makes our personalities what they are.

I'd say psychology is focused more broadly on why do people act the way they act, not stuck on personality traits.

Really depends on the school.

[crazy canuck]

Rather, the common view seems to be that sexual orientation is not fixed at all but has a certain amount of flexibility within a wide range of factors

Do have some articles on this common view and what these factors might be?  And what exactly do we mean by a certain amount of flexibility?  "Not fixed at all" seems a bit strong considering the failure of the anti-gay treatments.

Sure.  A quick google search found this one.  There are others also.  The spouse of one of my partners did some research in this area which is the reason I knew about this.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-005-1795-9#page-2

This is a few years old now but you will notice it is one of the first studies which began to question the belief that sexuality was determined early on and which began to study the phenomenon that sexuality changes over time and is more flexible than people had previously thought.


I dont think this makes a good argument for "anti-gay" treatment.  But it seems there is certainly good evidence that human sexuality is more complicated than simply being "fixed" at birth.