Exodus International Shuts Down

[Maximus]

My second son is a giant.  He is wearing two year old clothes at 10 months and is basically the same size as his brother.  So..defintely a bear.

Well I am a fifth son so...

We're talking about probabilities/percentages, not absolute numbers.

Meri: Don't know.  It was a long time ago.

It's an older study (about 10 years or so), but here:

http://classes.biology.ucsd.edu/bisp194-1.FA09/Blanchard_2001.pdf

In men, sexual orientation correlates with an individual's number of older brothers, each additional older brother increasing the odds of homosexuality by approximately 33%. It has been hypothesized that this fraternal birth order effect reflects the progressive immunization of some mothers to Y-linked minor histocompatibility antigens (H-Y antigens) by each succeeding male fetus and the concomitantly increasing effects of such maternal immunization on the future sexual orientation of each succeeding male fetus. According to this hypothesis, anti-H-Y antibodies produced by the mother pass through the placental barrier to the fetus and affect aspects of sexual differentiation in the fetal brain.

This explanation is consistent with a variety of evidence, including the apparent irrelevance of older sisters to the sexual orientation of later born males, the probable involvement of H-Y antigen in the development of sextypical traits, and the detrimental effects of immunization of female mice to H-Y antigen on the reproductive performance of subsequent male offspring. The maternal immune hypothesis might also explain the recent finding that heterosexual males with older brothers weigh less at birth than heterosexual males with older sisters and homosexual males with older brothers weigh even less than heterosexual males with older brothers.

It occurs to me that this would mean that religious conservatives who tend to have bigger families would actually be more likely to have gay sons.

[Josquius]

There are however examples out there of identical twins where one is gay and one straight. Which is pretty much all the proof you need.

Bleeding? WTF?
I'm speaking about genetically identical twins here. Their well recorded existence proves my point.

That's my understanding as well. It's by no means binary (or trinary if you include bisexuals) but rather a spectrum of attractions. From what I understand, however, that spectrum is believed to be a result of the level of a number of hormones in utero prior to birth. There are some studies indicating that hormones post-birth through the first couple of years of life may also play a factor.

So far as I'm aware, however, there are no studies by legitiment scholars that show how one is raised affects one's sexuality.

Wait what?
So you go off at me for suggesting nurture has a part and here you are doing the same.

Hormones aren't "nurture". They're "nature".

No, its an environmental factor, its nurture.

No, that's proof that it's not 100% genetic. It proves nothing else.

Which is what I said and you took issue with.

[Razgovory]

I just remember the stuff that Fate was talking about.  He seemed to know his shit on medical stuff.  This struck me as interesting because gay rights activists have been arguing for years that being homosexual is not a choice, but something someone is born with.  If this is true, then doctors should theoretically be able to alter sexuality prenatally.  If that happens then it's likely homosexuality will become extremely rare in the next 100 years as parents will probably choose to have straight children over gay ones for a whole myriad of reasons.

[Eddie Teach]

I just remember the stuff that Fate was talking about.  He seemed to know his shit on medical stuff.  This struck me as interesting because

He is normally an unabashed troll?

[Admiral Yi]

Fate caught a lot of shit because he wanted to satirize Republicans during the Obama/McCain race and it just rubbed people the wrong way. 

Fate is a fine upstanding citizen and doesn't deserve the bad rap he caught.

[Eddie Teach]

Fate caught a lot of shit because he wanted to satirize Republicans during the Obama/McCain race and it just rubbed people the wrong way. 

Fate is a fine upstanding citizen and doesn't deserve the bad rap he caught.

He'd already had that act for several years.

And if he really wanted to rehabilitate his image on the forum, he'd need to participate in it.

[Razgovory]

Fate caught a lot of shit because he wanted to satirize Republicans during the Obama/McCain race and it just rubbed people the wrong way. 

Fate is a fine upstanding citizen and doesn't deserve the bad rap he caught.

Fate tried to troll as a Republican, and did it poorly.  He's studying to be a doctor, so he's genuinely a bad person, but I suppose he knows medical stuff.

[katmai]

Just because the medical field all agree on your nutty ass doesn't make them bad Razzle.

[garbon]

Just because the medical field all agree on your nutty ass doesn't make them bad Razzle.

Studying to be a doctor doesn't make one an expert either, though DSB may disagree.

[DontSayBanana]

Studying to be a doctor doesn't make one an expert either, though DSB may disagree.

I'd object to this, but I'd be worried about starting a recursive loop.

[Razgovory]

Just because the medical field all agree on your nutty ass doesn't make them bad Razzle.

No it's the cutting up people that makes him bad.

[Valmy]

No, that's proof that it's not 100% genetic. It proves nothing else.

Not a single person was arguing that.  That was a strawman you built and went on about.

[The Brain]

Why would it being nurture make you be able to change it? Chopping off an arm is nurture, doesn't mean you can grow it back.

[Valmy]

Why would it being nurture make you be able to change it? Chopping off an arm is nurture, doesn't mean you can grow it back.

It means that there is something in raising the children and the environment that causes it.  Of course it that was true why would children being raised in the same environment and the same people result in some being gay and some not?  Why would it result in second and third sons and so forth have a slightly higher chance? 

If it was true then all Exodus and the groups like it would need to do was intervene earlier and find the correct environmental triggers and correct them.  You know, if you want to prevent arms being cut off best to intervene with people who still have both arms.

[The Brain]

Why would it being nurture make you be able to change it? Chopping off an arm is nurture, doesn't mean you can grow it back.

It means that there is something in raising the children and the environment that causes it.  Of course it that was true why would children being raised in the same environment and the same people result in some being gay and some not?  Why would it result in second and third sons and so forth have a slightly higher chance? 

If it was true then all Exodus and the groups like it would need to do was intervene earlier and find the correct environmental triggers and correct them.  You know, if you want to prevent arms being cut off best to intervene with people who still have both arms.

As the name implies Exodus was about changing homosexuals.