Connections between Mississippian culture and Mesoamerica?

[PDH]

Easy. Agriculture developed because of beer.

I have always liked the notion that the first fermented wheat "beers" came about from someone drinking the alcoholic liquid off of the top of overnight sourdough pots.  Probably not the tastiest of drinks.

[lustindarkness]

H2 has a show named America Unearthed, the first episode was the connection between the Maya and a ruins in Georgia.

[Neil]

Also, what about the Hero Twin and Feathered Serpent myths? 

Like Romulus and Remus?  Are either of those myths special or unique in the world to the point where they must have come through contact?

[derspiess]

Easy. Agriculture developed because of beer.

I have always liked the notion that the first fermented wheat "beers" came about from someone drinking the alcoholic liquid off of the top of overnight sourdough pots.  Probably not the tastiest of drinks.

Who knows, maybe it tasted good in the context of their diet back then.

[Queequeg]

I have always liked the notion that the first fermented wheat "beers" came about from someone drinking the alcoholic liquid off of the top of overnight sourdough pots.  Probably not the tastiest of drinks.

Does wine predate beer?  Had to figure there was some kind of container full of fruit that was left over-long at some point.

[PDH]

I have always liked the notion that the first fermented wheat "beers" came about from someone drinking the alcoholic liquid off of the top of overnight sourdough pots.  Probably not the tastiest of drinks.

Does wine predate beer?  Had to figure there was some kind of container full of fruit that was left over-long at some point.

I think the idea is that the first alcohol was fermented fruit.  Anyone for banana mash?  Not sure that qualifies as "wine" but in a pinch...

[mongers]

Interestingly the Beeb is starting a new story about 'Lost' kingdoms of South America, those predating the Incas, looks like worth watching:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01pwtqy/Lost_Kingdoms_of_South_America_People_of_the_Clouds/

[Viking]

A recent Facebook discussion got me interested in pre-contact Native Societies, and I've been reading a bit more on the Mississippian culture.  Most of the literature seems to suggest that there weren't substantial contacts between the Mississippian culture and Mesoamerica, but they shared the following;
Maize agriculture
Feathered serpent God
Human sacrifice on mounds
Ball games, including sacrifices and rituals
Hero twin myths

A lot of the art looks remarkably similar too:



I don't get how there would be cultural diffusion without large-scale contact or shared ancestry.  Really confused.

Apart from the lack of Maize in the mediterranean all these exist in the med civilizations, The Romans has Mythical Dragons, Gladiatorial games, Burnt offerings to god, Castor and Pollux (not to mention Romulus and Remus). Not to mention Bronze, something that existed in Cahokia but not Tenochtitlan. Bronze is possibly the only thing that would make the 2000 mile trek between the two worth while.

Did the Cahokians really worship and winged serpent? Or was it just a badly drawn snake?

[Tonitrus]

Based on the art, it seems they also had a Pink Flamingo god.

[Queequeg]

PDH, are there any good works on the Nahuatl going from the South-East down to Mexico?  I'd be interested.  Always struck me as interesting that they were related to the Comanche.   I also don't know how such massive population movements happen without horses. 

[dps]

PDH, are there any good works on the Nahuatl going from the South-East down to Mexico?  I'd be interested.  Always struck me as interesting that they were related to the Comanche.   I also don't know how such massive population movements happen without horses. 

It's called "walking".

[Queequeg]

American Southwest and the Mexican North aren't always the best place for a large number of migrants on foot. Also interested in how they displaced or conquered a settled population.

[Razgovory]

American Southwest and the Mexican North aren't always the best place for a large number of migrants on foot. Also interested in how they displaced or conquered a settled population.

Because they had fairly small populations, and many places in North America the tribes were fairly mobile.  That's why there is such a mish-mash of languages across North America.  The languages of the Apaches are related to languages of First Nations spoken in Canada and possibly some groups in Siberia.

[Queequeg]

Yeah, but the proto-Aztecs overpowered a settled agricultural population as a (presumably tiny) nomadic band that was hundreds of miles from it's home.  It seems quite different to me from most of the cases of language replacement I am familiar with.  The Turks were relatively small, but the mobility of the horse meant that a man born in Western Mongolia could pretty easily settle down in the vicinity of modern Ankara, and the steppe's ability to support massive numbers of horses was a huge tactical advantage.  Nahuatl had nothing like that far as I can see. 

[Barrister]

For food, culture and technologytransfer you don't have to have one person walk from Tenochitlan all the way to the SE US - it can be done by a slow and gradual series of transfers.  The area inbetween was not home to any major political organization, but was still far from empty.

The trade in physical items is a lot easier to track archaeologically, and they've shown how those physical items were traded hundreds and even thousands of miles from their origin.  Those same trade networks could include cultural ideas as well.