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Naval Warfaretards/Churchillians, to me!

Started by CountDeMoney, May 24, 2012, 06:40:38 AM

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grumbler

#45
May 24, 2012, 09:30:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 24, 2012, 09:23:14 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:11:14 PM
The Battleship That Was a Girl?  I think Tim's writing that novel.

Neil's already preordered.
I came?
Warspite isn't a girl's name.

Unless the poster is really good at hiding things.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

11B4V

#46
May 24, 2012, 09:31:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2012, 09:19:47 PM
Especially coming from a person, like you, who idolizes the most incompetent and wasteful military unit ever, the "strategic bomber." :contract:


Hey!!!  :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thats whats called a shit spew.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

#47
May 24, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Surely you know enough to understand that the strategic bomber only came of age when it was already obsolete.  Absent the nuclear bomb, it was impotent.  With the nuclear bomb, it was a Dr Stragelovian anachronism.

Like so much else, I blithely dismiss that logic.  :mad: 

Strategic bombers allow the political track to continue in the event of an escalating nuclear exchange.  THE TRIAD HAS VALUE

Ideologue

#48
May 24, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2012, 09:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:11:14 PM
The Battleship That Was a Girl?  I think Tim's writing that novel.

Neil's already preordered.

<_<  There are many issues on which you can call "bullshit" on Neil, but his love of dreadnoughts isn't one of them.   

Especially coming from a person, like you, who idolizes the most incompetent and wasteful military unit ever, the "strategic bomber." :contract:

And they're useful in the maritime strike/maritime reconnaissance role too.  But we both know that. :contract:

QuoteSurely you know enough to understand that the strategic bomber only came of age when it was already obsolete.  Absent the nuclear bomb, it was impotent.

Half of Tokyo begs to differ.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Neil

#49
May 24, 2012, 09:46:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2012, 09:19:47 PM
And, yes, it was more wasteful than the paratroop force!
Yeah, both were of pretty limited military utility, but the bombers were an order of magnitude more wasteful of resources.

Even the strike-back morale boost was negated by the horror of saturation bombing.  I've heard stories of Bomber Command vets getting treated like they'd come back from Vietnam, with the baby-killing and all.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

grumbler

#50
May 24, 2012, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
THE TRIAD HAS VALUE

Only to the Chair Force.  By the time nuclear bombers speak their piece, the war is over.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Neil

#51
May 24, 2012, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
Half of Tokyo begs to differ.
And yet they didn't manage to win the war, or really win any meaningful advantage.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

grumbler

#52
May 24, 2012, 09:57:31 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
And they're useful in the maritime strike/maritime reconnaissance role too.  But we both know that. :contract:

Strategic bombers are useless in the maritime strike/maritime reconnaissance role.  In fact, every ton of strategic bomber diverted to the maritime strike/maritime reconnaissance role saved more tonnage than the it would have as a "strategic bomber."

QuoteHalf of Tokyo begs to differ.
The destruction of "half of Tokyo" had no impact on the war.  It was already lost, and the destruction eliminated factories already idled by the blockade.

it is possible that the strategic bomber could have shortened WW2, but the incompetent fucks running the strategic bombing campaign could never have done it.  Strategic bombing seems to be a concept that, like "taxing the rich," eliminates in its adherents the capacity for thought.  Strategic bombing is carried out only, it seems, by those inclined to magical thinking.  Same for 'precision air warfare."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

CountDeMoney

#53
May 24, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
Poo poo on you both.  From 30,000 feet.

11B4V

#54
May 24, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMMMMBLE

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

#55
May 24, 2012, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
Poo poo on you both.  From 30,000 feet.

C'mon.  You know, he's trolling.  Hell, he's endorsed Strategic bombers on this very board.  Although pointing out something like that might get you labeled a "gotcha poster".
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

11B4V

#56
May 24, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 24, 2012, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 24, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
Half of Tokyo begs to differ.
And yet they didn't manage to win the war, or really win any meaningful advantage.

Yea..lol, battleships contributed greatly in WW2..... :rolleyes: made nice artificial reefs.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Barrister

#57
May 24, 2012, 10:07:48 PM
You know, objectively I know Neil and grumbler are right on this one.

But subjectively, I know my grandpa single-handedly defeated the Nazis by being a wireless operator on an RCAF plane.

So I know which side has my allegiance.   :cool:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

derspiess

#58
May 24, 2012, 10:08:01 PM
Fun thread.  Dunno why I stayed out for so long :cheers:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

11B4V

#59
May 24, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 24, 2012, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
Poo poo on you both.  From 30,000 feet.

C'mon.  You know, he's trolling.  Hell, he's endorsed Strategic bombers on this very board.  Although pointing out something like that might get you labeled a "gotcha poster".

SILENCE. WE'LL NOT HAVE ANY HIPPIE PEACEMAKERS HERE1
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".
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