Syria Disintegrating: Part 2

[KRonn]

The idea of ISIS as a Western conspiracy is quite widespread in the Middle East.

Heh, that is truly bizarre, given that ISIL is running roughshod, taking over towns and cities, and is in the news. Do the people of the Mid East think all of that is a put on by the ebil West?? Then too, I'm sure it isn't so widespread of a conspiracy to the people of Iraq and Syria who live under their control. And it can't be a conspiracy to the men and foolish women who travel to Syria to join up, women basically becoming indentured servants at best as third class citizens. I wonder how well that sits with the girls/women from western nations?

[Viking]

The idea of ISIS as a Western conspiracy is quite widespread in the Middle East.

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Pretty much everything is a conspiracy. It shows a lack of Enlightenment style use of reason when everybody considers ISIS not to be what they say they are, but rather a plot against themselves and sponsored by their enemies.

[Eddie Teach]

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Maybe something they don't see as a problem, like lack of rights for women or gays. But then you probably will have westerners blaming ourselves for those. 

[Viking]

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Maybe something they don't see as a problem, like lack of rights for women or gays. But then you probably will have westerners blaming ourselves for those. 

Never doubt, there are western thinkers working on providing the intellectual basis for blaming this too on Bush.

[KRonn]

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Maybe something they don't see as a problem, like lack of rights for women or gays. But then you probably will have westerners blaming ourselves for those. 

Never doubt, there are western thinkers working on providing the intellectual basis for blaming this too on Bush.

Lol, ISIL doesn't need to waste the effort on propaganda when we have our own intellectual elites to do it for them.   

[Viking]

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Maybe something they don't see as a problem, like lack of rights for women or gays. But then you probably will have westerners blaming ourselves for those. 

Never doubt, there are western thinkers working on providing the intellectual basis for blaming this too on Bush.

Lol, ISIL doesn't need to waste the effort on propaganda when we have our own intellectual elites to do it for them.   

No, the ISIS propaganda campaign towards us is a complete failure. They keep saying that "We want to kill you because you are  infidels!" and we keep ignoring them and blaming ourselves for what they do. It is denying these people agency. If I were denied agency like that I would be angry too.

[Razgovory]

The idea of ISIS as a Western conspiracy is quite widespread in the Middle East.

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Pretty much everything is a conspiracy. It shows a lack of Enlightenment style use of reason when everybody considers ISIS not to be what they say they are, but rather a plot against themselves and sponsored by their enemies.

I typically share this opinion, but an idea has occurred to me.  If you live in a country where the government is constantly conspiring against the public, it would probably make it difficult to tell fantasy from reality.

[KRonn]

Lol, ISIL doesn't need to waste the effort on propaganda when we have our own intellectual elites to do it for them.   

No, the ISIS propaganda campaign towards us is a complete failure. They keep saying that "We want to kill you because you are  infidels!" and we keep ignoring them and blaming ourselves for what they do. It is denying these people agency. If I were denied agency like that I would be angry too.

Yeah, that is probably more accurate how we blame ourselves for everything, even in the face of extreme nastiness like ISIL. My view is that this is more about a cultural war within Islam between the radicals and the normal people. But blaming the west for everything fits and is a handy scapegoat for them to rally the troops, even though they've really made most of their own larger problems.

[Hansmeister]

Tell me a single problem in the Middle East which is not blamed on the West and/or the Jews.

Maybe something they don't see as a problem, like lack of rights for women or gays. But then you probably will have westerners blaming ourselves for those. 

Never doubt, there are western thinkers working on providing the intellectual basis for blaming this too on Bush.

Lol, ISIL doesn't need to waste the effort on propaganda when we have our own intellectual elites to do it for them.   

No, the ISIS propaganda campaign towards us is a complete failure. They keep saying that "We want to kill you because you are  infidels!" and we keep ignoring them and blaming ourselves for what they do. It is denying these people agency. If I were denied agency like that I would be angry too.

So what you are saying is that we are to blame for them being angry at us? 

[Hansmeister]

Well, the two main rebel groups in the east fighting ISIL have surrendered, rendering the Obama strategy, and I'm being charitable, inoperative.  The only rebels still left are concentrated in the west and fighting only against Assad, training rebels to fight ISIL can't wo if there aren't an rebels near them.

Then again I bel, like most experts, that Obama never had any real intention to fight ISIL, he just wanted to pretend he is doing something until after the election.

[Admiral Yi]

If the moderate rebels turn out to be a bust it could end up biting Hillary in her titanic ass. 

[Hansmeister]

If the moderate rebels turn out to be a bust it could end up biting Hillary in her titanic ass. 

Well, to be fair, the strategy of training 5,000 rebels over the next 6 months to take on the 20,000 men of ISIL in Syria never sounded like it would have had any probability of success. Without any remaining bases in eastern Syria that option is now closed.

On the other side the ANSF has suffered over 9,000 KIA in the last two years, and a much larger number of WIA and defections in Afghanistan, losses that are not sustainable, meaning we will either have to reverse the drawdown or hope our embassy has a large enough helipad on the roof. On current course Afghanistan will collapse before Obama's term is up.

[The Minsky Moment]

If the moderate rebels turn out to be a bust it could end up biting Hillary in her titanic ass. 

Turn out?  That ship sailed a couple years ago I think.
I agree with Hans that the strategy is just to go through the motions for appearances.  That and help the Kurds just enough they can hang on.
However, it is not clear that there is really a better option out there. 

[Monoriu]

I have not followed developments in Syria or this thread.  So is there a three-way war in Syria now (government, rebels, ISIL)?  Or what? 

[The Minsky Moment]

It's every pissant faction for itself.