GOP Primary Megathread!

[sbr]

Anyway - Ron does seem to be getting a lot of heat on this issue now.

I blame the inner-city criminal blacks and the perfidious jews.

[Razgovory]

France is not an ethnically based state, both in theory and in practice. The struggles with immigration have a lot more to do with piss-poor urban planning, high unemployement and religious issues in the public sphere. France's mission civilisatrice is universal after all 

Not counting the 15% of racist tards that are present in every western country.

Really?  I would have thought that France is a primary example of a Nation State.  France has sought to homogenize their population for a long time.

[grumbler]

Yep, typical Grumbler bs. If you point out he is wrong he does one of two things.  He accuses you of a gotcha style - which ironically is his speciality over the last couple years or he falls back on semantics to argue he said no such thing and that actually he said the opposite.

So, now you are shifting away from the "semantic u-turn" accusation (which you couldn't back when challenged on it) to claiming I use the "gotcha" style of argumentation?

I challenge you to find examples of that, as well.  Are you going to weasel out of every challenge I make, or are you going to back this one with some examples (as I did when I pointed out Raz's "gotcha" style)?

Nothing from novels, please.  That doesn't fly here.

[Razgovory]

Careful, CC.  If you prove him wrong he may classify you as a "Gotcha Debater" and start ignoring you.

[szmik]

Yep, typical Grumbler bs. If you point out he is wrong he does one of two things.  He accuses you of a gotcha style - which ironically is his speciality over the last couple years or he falls back on semantics to argue he said no such thing and that actually he said the opposite.

So, now you are shifting away from the "semantic u-turn" accusation (which you couldn't back when challenged on it) to claiming I use the "gotcha" style of argumentation?

I challenge you to find examples of that, as well.  Are you going to weasel out of every challenge I make, or are you going to back this one with some examples (as I did when I pointed out Raz's "gotcha" style)?

Nothing from novels, please.  That doesn't fly here.

what was this obscure boat called again? Petrucca or something? I don't remember, but your argument there was is hilarious example

[Martinus]

Patriotic feelings need not be based on shared ethnicity. Shared allegiance to a political system and/or its symbols will suffice - look at the US.

I also fail to see where I said they MUST be based on ethnicity, just in the Old World they are as it stands right now.  So my point was, given  that fact, it is hard to judge them too harshly for struggling with the immigration issue more than we have.  We do not have the burden of an ethnically based state.

France is not an ethnically based state, both in theory and in practice. The struggles with immigration have a lot more to do with piss-poor urban planning, high unemployement and religious issues in the public sphere. France's mission civilisatrice is universal after all 

Not counting the 15% of racist tards that are present in every western country.

Germany, which Valmy used as an example earlier, also shows quite well how the "ethnic state" concept is quite blurred and meaningless, and I am not just talking about immigrants. The "German nation" has been ruled by a single German state for less than 100 years in total, so it is hardly an established concept/entity, and the fact that countries like Austria remain out of it (with Austrians being, arguably, more closely related to Bavarians, culture-and-ethnicity-wise, than Bavarians are to Westfalians) shows that it hardly is a country that could lay a claim of being one for all German people, except perhaps only symbolically.

[Neil]

Question:  Why is Martinus so fucking stupid?

[grumbler]

what was this obscure boat called again? Petrucca or something? I don't remember, but your argument there was is hilarious example

They were pinnaces, or dispatch boats.  Some guy writing a wikipedia article used some obscure French (iirc) word for them, but I don't remember what it was.

Not sure what was hilarious about my argument that it wasn't impossible for the Armada to have succeeded (which I was debating with Malthus, and his arguments were based on a wikipedia article). Maybe you can enlighten me?

[grumbler]

Question:  Why is Martinus so fucking stupid?

Lack of education, I am guessing.  He is partially correct on the main point (that the concept of the ethnic state is very blurry at best) but his idea that it is meaningless, or that the tensions between the concepts of nations and states hasn't been a major source of conflict in European history, is mind-boggling.

[Razgovory]

Question:  Why is Martinus so fucking stupid?

I suspect it's partially because he tries to present himself as an enlightened intellectual.  The yawning gap between what he tries to be and what he actually is is so huge it creates an impression of utter stupidity.  Sadly Marty is also a Narcissistic egotist so I don't think any of what what we say really sinks in.  I suspect he promptly forgets every time he makes a fool of himself as a defense mechanism.

[11B4V]

Yep, typical Grumbler bs. If you point out he is wrong he does one of two things.  He accuses you of a gotcha style - which ironically is his speciality over the last couple years or he falls back on semantics to argue he said no such thing and that actually he said the opposite.

So, now you are shifting away from the "semantic u-turn" accusation (which you couldn't back when challenged on it) to claiming I use the "gotcha" style of argumentation?

I challenge you to find examples of that, as well.  Are you going to weasel out of every challenge I make, or are you going to back this one with some examples (as I did when I pointed out Raz's "gotcha" style)?

Nothing from novels, please.  That doesn't fly here.

what was this obscure boat called again? Petrucca or something? I don't remember, but your argument there was is hilarious example

Truely a Languish classic.

[szmik]

what was this obscure boat called again? Petrucca or something? I don't remember, but your argument there was is hilarious example

They were pinnaces, or dispatch boats.  Some guy writing a wikipedia article used some obscure French (iirc) word for them, but I don't remember what it was.

Not sure what was hilarious about my argument that it wasn't impossible for the Armada to have succeeded (which I was debating with Malthus, and his arguments were based on a wikipedia article). Maybe you can enlighten me?

Go back to that discussion maybe and read it cold?

Problem is you're an argument black hole.

Enlightening you is simply pointless, it seems you are unable to ever admit your wrong position. I know better ways to waste my time.

[grumbler]

Problem is you're an argument black hole.

Enlightening you is simply pointless, it seems you are unable to ever admit your wrong position. I know better ways to waste my time.

  Okay.  So long as your arguments are pure ad hominem, I won't bother taking them seriously. 

[Zoupa]

France is not an ethnically based state, both in theory and in practice. The struggles with immigration have a lot more to do with piss-poor urban planning, high unemployement and religious issues in the public sphere. France's mission civilisatrice is universal after all 

Not counting the 15% of racist tards that are present in every western country.

Really?  I would have thought that France is a primary example of a Nation State.  France has sought to homogenize their population for a long time.

Homogenize language and some core values. Not culture or "race".

[Razgovory]

Nobody said anything about "race".  France made a great effort to destroy variant cultures in it's borders.  They were largely successful.