Docket jockeys: would paralegal be worth it?

[DontSayBanana]

Interesting, I was going to chime in with the advice that you go for court reporter.

Yeah. It's pretty expensive if you want something more valuable than toilet paper. The NCRA only certifies 65 schools in the US now; the court reporting program I was pushing for would come out to about $35K over 33 months to receive an ASB (associates in specialized business), plus RPR certification; our local college has a strong AS program in paralegal studies, certified by the American Bar Association, that comes out to just over $10K, all in.

[Barrister]

Interesting, I was going to chime in with the advice that you go for court reporter.

Actually in my experience the formal job of court reporter is rapidly going by the wayside.

That is - a court reporter's job is to transcribe everything that happens verbatim as it happens in a courtroom.   But with the advent of digital recording technology that never happens anymore.  Instead what happens is the courtroom happenings are recorded, but only transcribed if and when it is requested later on.  Odly the only time I have seen a proper court reporter is during a murder trial, or during the week I spent in the high arctic, when we had an obviously gay court reporter from northern Ontario.

[DontSayBanana]

Actually in my experience the formal job of court reporter is rapidly going by the wayside.

That is - a court reporter's job is to transcribe everything that happens verbatim as it happens in a courtroom.   But with the advent of digital recording technology that never happens anymore.  Instead what happens is the courtroom happenings are recorded, but only transcribed if and when it is requested later on.  Odly the only time I have seen a proper court reporter is during a murder trial, or during the week I spent in the high arctic, when we had an obviously gay court reporter from northern Ontario.

The role of a court reporter is changing pretty rapidly. Accuracy of computerized transcription is still below acceptable levels, but with digital recording as prevalent as it is now, the realtime aspect is less in demand. Because of the subpar accuracy, the push is for realtime captioning for the hard of hearing, which was what attracted me to it in the first place as I've got tangential experience.

As of 2007, only about 30% of court reporters are actually employed in the courtroom; the rest are freelancers or staffed through on-demand services or, in rare cases, retained as broadcast/webcast captioners or realtime reporters for those who would need on-demand captioning services.

[alfred russel]

Yeah. It's pretty expensive if you want something more valuable than toilet paper. The NCRA only certifies 65 schools in the US now; the court reporting program I was pushing for would come out to about $35K over 33 months to receive an ASB (associates in specialized business), plus RPR certification; our local college has a strong AS program in paralegal studies, certified by the American Bar Association, that comes out to just over $10K, all in.

Try to take into consideration that the money for any program is going to be significantly dwarfed your lifetime earnings. You might hear doctors complaining of how much debt they racked up in medical school, but even with $200k in debt they are driving high end cars and have mcmansions.

Your profile says you are 23. Even with 6 years of school (I'm thinking you finished one already) you would still not be very old. If you are going to work for the next 40+ years, would a few more years of school now justify rising above a role that prevents you from attaining a leadership role in the field and puts a much lower cap on your compensation compared to the people you will work with?

[DontSayBanana]

Try to take into consideration that the money for any program is going to be significantly dwarfed your lifetime earnings. You might hear doctors complaining of how much debt they racked up in medical school, but even with $200k in debt they are driving high end cars and have mcmansions.

Your profile says you are 23. Even with 6 years of school (I'm thinking you finished one already) you would still not be very old. If you are going to work for the next 40+ years, would a few more years of school now justify rising above a role that prevents you from attaining a leadership role in the field and puts a much lower cap on your compensation compared to the people you will work with?

I finished one year at a community college. You're assuming that paralegal training and attorney training are mutually exclusive; they're not- example: http://www.paralegaltraining.net/blog/advancing-from-paralegal-to-attorney

[alfred russel]

I finished one year at a community college. You're assuming that paralegal training and attorney training are mutually exclusive; they're not- example: http://www.paralegaltraining.net/blog/advancing-from-paralegal-to-attorney

It doesn't sound like there is much benefit, if you will still need a college degree and a law degree. Unless you plan to go to law school and will be licensed to work as a paralegal before you start law school but while obtaining your degree.

[DontSayBanana]

It doesn't sound like there is much benefit, if you will still need a college degree and a law degree. Unless you plan to go to law school and will be licensed to work as a paralegal before you start law school but while obtaining your degree.

The plan I'm forming is to become qualified as a paralegal and advance to law school while employed. Given my history of backslides, this would mean that one later on would only drop me back to a qualified paralegal, rather than the "jack of all trades, paper on none" situation that's been hindering me for the past couple of years.

[crazy canuck]

If you did it that way you would have a big leg up on the rest of your class in law school.   Keep in mind that good paralegals can be paid as much or more then junior lawyers. 

Most junior lawyers know nothing while good paralegals essentially run their files making them very valuable to their firms.

[Iormlund]

Why not go for law school? It seems as though you are a reasonably intelligent guy: why would you want to work as a paralegal where you will always be a notch below the lawyers you work with, even if you are smarter than many of them?

Presumably because a paralegal program takes 1-2 years, whereas law school typically takes 7 (undergrad plus law school).

In that case why not go for a degree that can get you into the workplace immediately: engineering, business, computer science, or something else I'm not thinking of. That is an extra couple of years of school though.

Engineering and computer science require significant math skills. That said,  over here business is indeed the degree of choice for those who want something relatively useful without putting that much effort.

[DontSayBanana]

Engineering and computer science require significant math skills. That said,  over here business is indeed the degree of choice for those who want something relatively useful without putting that much effort.

Heh. I've got the aptitudes for all three, but engineering isn't something that can hold my interest, my background would seriously hamper my efforts in business past school, and computer science is a saturated field in the US, at least among the entry-level market. When I graduated from high school, I had done so much with our computer systems that the tech department cooked up an "achievements in the field of technology" certificate so that I had some formal recognition... now with all the Circuit City Firedog technicians out of work, I can't even get a callback from Best Buy's Geek Squad.

[alfred russel]

Heh. I've got the aptitudes for all three, but engineering isn't something that can hold my interest, my background would seriously hamper my efforts in business past school, and computer science is a saturated field in the US, at least among the entry-level market. When I graduated from high school, I had done so much with our computer systems that the tech department cooked up an "achievements in the field of technology" certificate so that I had some formal recognition... now with all the Circuit City Firedog technicians out of work, I can't even get a callback from Best Buy's Geek Squad.

Unless you have a criminal background, I wouldn't worry about your past. Once you get your foot in the door, all most people care about is if you can get the job done.

[DontSayBanana]

Well, I just got back from an appointment at the college. Just between Pell grants and the WDPP grant, I should be more than covered for the program.

Just need to get paperwork over to my counselor at LWD, and I should be taking AC 103 - Principles of Accounting, and CS 102 - Applications on Microcomputer (necessary retake ) over the summer.

The fall should get interesting though, as I'll be taking both PL 101 - Introduction to the Legal System and PL 104 - Introduction to Legal Research and Writing, along with BU 109 - Business Law and a couple of token gen ed classes.

[Scipio]

If you did it that way you would have a big leg up on the rest of your class in law school.   Keep in mind that good paralegals can be paid as much or more then junior lawyers. 

Most junior lawyers know nothing while good paralegals essentially run their files making them very valuable to their firms.

I had a real good friend from high school and college who was paralegaling for a big-time Washington DC firm.  He was making 65k a year and pretty much just banking it, working 8-5 inside the beltway.  He had a BS from Georgetown's School of Foreign Service, but no specialized legal training.  Just a hard-working filipino.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

... computer science is a saturated field in the US, at least among the entry-level market...

Don't tell that to the ACM.  They see a severe shortage of CS majors already, with it getting worse.  Part of the reason is the perception that the area is saturated.

[DontSayBanana]

Don't tell that to the ACM.  They see a severe shortage of CS majors already, with it getting worse.  Part of the reason is the perception that the area is saturated.

I know; the market is definitely not saturated. As much as everything is running electronically these days, CS is still hugely in demand. The biggest problem I ran into is that there's a bottleneck on the entry-level market; everybody wants CS guys, but nobody wants a fresh CS guy. It's the "nobody wants less than 5 years experience, so how are any of the new guys going to get any experience" problem.