Would embracing gays cost conservatives votes?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah but then you are a catholic. Catholic gays make for some of the better debate opponents of mine, admittedly.

Hey it's our Jesuitical mindset

And I'm not really Catholic.  I'd be Anglican if it wasn't that the Anglicans who are okay with gays are also okay with women priests and guitars

I think class and background has far more to do with it to be honest.  During the London riots me and my non-gay university educated friends were talking about social malaise and exclusion, family and lack of opportunity - all of that sort of thing.  I went a coffee shop in Soho and heard a bunch of East End queens support calling the Army and, if need be, the RAF in to deal with it.  I think our different class backgrounds (and my middle class cringe) had far more to do with our opinions on law and order than our shared sexuality.

Oh don't play coy.  You would think the entire educated establishment is out to destroy them.

It and the inter-linked weird cultural attitude are the things I find most frustrating about American conservatism.  I mean hearing conservatives standing on stage taking pot shots at the idea of an independent central bank and its head (with a couple of honourable exceptions) is just strange.

[Eddie Teach]

  Nobody whines about victimhood like Americans of all stripes.

Your American exceptionalism is galling! 

[Valmy]

Your American exceptionalism is galling! 

America is a whining city on a hill!

[Habsburg]

Good question Mart.

Probably moot with me because I will and do vote GOP almost as much as I'd vote Dem.
Though far from a single issue voter, I couldn't vote for someone distinctly hostile towards gays.  I also have a problem with candidates who base much of their agenda from religious ideals.

Childless, I do care very much about education, I want better education and want it available to as many as possible (particullary in the sciences and math.)  I do support social assistance programs, but rehauled.  There is way too much waste in several programs at the moment.

I'm failry conservative in foreign policy and want a strong defense budget (versus military budget.)

[Berkut]

Reublicans are not going to switch because even if it could help them in general (a debatable question itself), it will hurt them within the primary system.

Being pro-gay may not hurt Joe Republican when he is running against Joe Dem, but being not anti-gay is going to hurt him enough with the fundy intolerant crowd that he is going to lose the primary before he ever gets that far.

[Barrister]

They have somewhere to go & it's not voting. There's no other group that can offer a solution to losing the religious vote.

This (and Eddie T said something similar).

And it's not just voting - religious voters are the ones likely to knock on doors, make telephone calls, DONATE - all stuff that makes up the backbone of any political campaign.

This is why even in Canada you really don't see Harper reaching out to gay voters.  All of the policy issues have been decided and are old news - yet I don't think you'll see Harper at a gay pride parade.  "Religious" voters are a small but important part of his coalition, and he does not want them to drop out even though they're not going to go and vote for the NDP instead.

[The Brain]

Reublicans are not going to switch because even if it could help them in general (a debatable question itself), it will hurt them within the primary system.

Being pro-gay may not hurt Joe Republican when he is running against Joe Dem, but being not anti-gay is going to hurt him enough with the fundy intolerant crowd that he is going to lose the primary before he ever gets that far.

The system works.

[Ed Anger]

In the October issue of GQ magazine, Eastwood said that Republicans were making a big mistake by opposing same sex marriage.

"These people who are making a big deal out of gay marriage?" Eastwood opined. "I don't give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We're making a big deal out of things we shouldn't be making a deal out of."

"They go on and on with all this bullshit about 'sanctity' -- don't give me that sanctity crap! Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want."

[Admiral Yi]

But I fear they won't.  In Western societies these days victim status gets you certain advantages, and I don't think we'll see gay rights groups give that up even if they get what they are demanding at the moment.

Advantages aside, victimization is part of the bedrock of the American gay group identity.  It would be a sea change if they were to drop that.  And anyone who feels oppressed by The Man has to vote Democrat.

Did not finish reading thread before posting.

[Valmy]

Advantages aside, victimization is part of the bedrock of the American gay group identity.

I thought it was their little subculture and stuff.  I don't see garbon or Habsy or most of the gay guys I know IRL latching on to being victims.

I mean that is not to say they do not have whiny victims but every group does that.

[Sheilbh]

Advantages aside, victimization is part of the bedrock of the American gay group identity.  It would be a sea change if they were to drop that.  And anyone who feels oppressed by The Man has to vote Democrat.

I think Republicans would be better up looking into why almost every minority group supports the Democrats than just blaming 'victim culture'.  Things like a Presidential candidate (albeit a third tier one) referring to the Latino vote as 'the illegal vote' - a pure gaffe - and so on could be part of it.

[Razgovory]

Advantages aside, victimization is part of the bedrock of the American gay group identity.  It would be a sea change if they were to drop that.  And anyone who feels oppressed by The Man has to vote Democrat.

I think Republicans would be better up looking into why almost every minority group supports the Democrats than just blaming 'victim culture'.  Things like a Presidential candidate (albeit a third tier one) referring to the Latino vote as 'the illegal vote' - a pure gaffe - and so on could be part of it.

Yi should be reminded that the modern GOP loves playing the victim as well.  It's just more absurd when they do so.  Things like the the evil liberal media and the War on Christmas.  In the words of former GOP congresswoman Helen Chenoweth ""It's the white, Anglo-Saxon male that's endangered today."

[derspiess]

I think Republicans would be better up looking into why almost every minority group supports the Democrats than just blaming 'victim culture'. 

No, that's pretty much it. 

[Ideologue]

I would hope that with gays' relative affluence they would drop their aggrieved status at that point, but these types of movements tend to want to go on forever, demanding new things previous generations wouldn't have dreamed of asking for.

The movement for equal rights for gays has never been about affluence, except in so far as they want inheritance rights and the rest.

Although there a lot of gay rights causes that are urgent, this isn't one of them.  Draft a will!  It's not just for straight people!

I went a coffee shop in Soho and heard a bunch of East End queens support calling the Army and, if need be, the RAF in to deal with it.

I want to be their friends now.

[derspiess]

Yi should be reminded that the modern GOP loves playing the victim as well.  It's just more absurd when they do so.  Things like the the evil liberal media and the War on Christmas.  In the words of former GOP congresswoman Helen Chenoweth ""It's the white, Anglo-Saxon male that's endangered today."

Yeah, that's been covered already.  And you guys are defining the "victimhood" thing down a bit.  Unless I missed the part where conservatives are trying to get in on the affirmative action gravy train or advocating for special rights for themselves.