Big Changes Ahead in Syria

[Savonarola]

I think ultimately, this thread should be retitled "Not So Big Changes Ahead in Syria"

The government has permitted wearing headscarves in public schools.  They've become more tolerant than France.   

[HVC]

I think ultimately, this thread should be retitled "Not So Big Changes Ahead in Syria"

The government has permitted wearing headscarves in public schools.  They've become more tolerant than France.  

[KRonn]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/28/200-quit-syrias-ruling-party-protest-crackdown/?test=latestnews

Syrian Security Forces Fire on Anti-Gov't Demonstrators as 200 Quit Ruling Party

BEIRUT –  Tanks rolled into the northern port of Latakia -- a key city in the heartland of Syria's ruling elite -- and security forces opened fire on anti government demonstrators, while heavy shooting rang out again Thursday in the southern protest hotbed of Daraa, witnesses said.

In a further blow to President Bashar Assad, more than 200 members have quit Syria's ruling Baath Party in the southern province at the center of the uprising to protest the Assad regime's brutal crackdown on opponents, a human rights activist said.

A witness said six tanks rolled into Latakia on Wednesday night and security forces fired on pro-democracy demonstrators, wounding four.

Unrest in Latakia is significant because the province has strong historical ties to Assad's minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. Latakia is home to a diverse mix of religious groups, with mostly Sunni Muslims in the urban core and Alawites in the countryside. At least 14 people died in clashes in the city during the earlier days of the uprising, raising fears that the violence could take on a sectarian tone in coming days or weeks.

Assad has tried to crush the revolt -- the gravest challenge to his family's 40-year ruling dynasty. More than 450 people have been killed across Syria in the crackdown, with 120 dead this past weekend alone.

In the Damascus suburb of Douma, security forces strengthened their control, fortifying their checkpoints on all roads leading to the area and setting up sand barriers, a resident said.

"Security is so tight around Douma that even birds can't go in," he said, adding that security forces with lists of wanted people continued to detain residents in the area.

Troops were using heavy machine guns in a military operation in Daraa on Thursday, said resident Abdullah Abazeid. He added that snipers shot and killed more people and that 43 have died since the military descended on Daraa on Monday.

The latest deaths include a 6-year-old girl, hit by a sniper Wednesday on the roof of her parents' apartment. He added that pro-government gunmen known as "shabiha" damaged a large numbers of shops in the city.

Abazeid said they were still hiding the bodies of the dead because the cemetery was occupied by Syrian forces belonging to Unit Four, considered the fiercest and most violent of the troops in the town.

The city was still without telephones, electricity and water and lacked food and infant formula, he said, adding that some parents were giving their children water and sugar for lack of powder milk.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference, which represents 57 Muslim nations, said its Secretary-General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu spoke with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem by telephone and "expressed his profound sorrow at the large number of deaths and injuries."

It added that Ihsanoglu renewed the OIC stand in favor of restraint and nonviolence along with early implementation of the reforms announced by the Assad government and a prompt engagement in a constructive dialogue with the national forces.

In neighboring Lebanon, customs officials and witnesses said hundreds of people crossed the border, fleeing violence in the Syrian town of Talkalakh. Residents of areas near the border heard gunfire overnight.

In addition to the 200 Baath Party resignations, human rights activist Mustafa Osso said another 30 resigned in the coastal city of Banias. Most who quit were lower-ranking members, he said.

Even though the resignations are small in scope -- the party counts more than 1 million members in Syria -- such walkouts were unimaginable before the uprising began.

A resident of the city of Daraa said most of the resignations came from among Baath members in the town of Inkhil. He spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing reprisals.

Syria's uprising against Assad's authoritarian regime started in Daraa, the provincial capital, on March 15.

The head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Rami Abdul-Rahman, said the latest death toll was 454. He also said 68 soldiers who also died in the violence.

Since Wednesday, security forces carrying lists of wanted people have detained dozens around the country, he said. One of those detained was Rasim Atassi, a senior member of the Arab Organization for Human Rights, according to Syrian rights groups.

The revolt began with calls for modest reforms, but protesters emboldened by the violence are now increasingly demanding Assad's ouster.

Assad has blamed most of the unrest on a "foreign conspiracy" and armed thugs, not true reform-seekers.

Syria has banned nearly all foreign media and restricted access to trouble spots since the uprising began, making it almost impossible to verify the dramatic events shaking one of the most authoritarian regimes in the Arab world.

On Thursday, the Committee to Protect Journalists said Al-Jazeera TV suspended its operations in Syria indefinitely in response to restrictions and attacks on its staff. It quoted producer Hassan Elmogummer Taha as saying that the satellite broadcaster's Damascus office has been pelted with eggs and stones for three days, while plainclothes security men have harassed and intimidated its employees.

Two residents in Daraa said Wednesday that at least five army officers had sided with demonstrators, and conscripted soldiers sent into the city were quietly refusing orders to detain people at checkpoints and were allowing some people through to get scarce supplies. But the Syrian government denied that there had been any splits in the military, which is seen as fiercely loyal to Assad. The army also denied any defections.

Eyewitness accounts from Syria have caused world leaders to step up criticism of the Assad regime. The governments of five European nations summoned Syrian ambassadors Wednesday in a coordinated demand that Assad stop shooting at his people.

Turkey, which has close ties with Assad, sent envoys to Syria to convince him to show restraint. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said Turkey does not want to see an "an authoritarian, totalitarian, imposing structure," in Syria.

European countries threatened sanctions if the crackdown didn't end. U.S. officials have said Washington has begun drawing up targeted sanctions against Assad, his family and his inner circle.

However, the U.N. Security Council failed to agree Wednesday on a statement circulated by Britain, France, Germany and Portugal condemning the violence in Syria. Several members -- including Lebanon -- indicated they were opposed, council diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting was closed. Security Council statements to the media must be approved by consensus.

Britain, meanwhile, revoked a royal wedding invitation to the Syrian Ambassador Sami Khiyami because of the unrest.

The government said ambassadors from 185 countries with which Britain has "normal diplomatic relations" had been invited to Friday's wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton, and that an invitation did not condone regimes' behavior.

But the Foreign Office said Thursday that "in the light of this week's attacks against civilians by the Syrian security forces, which we have condemned, the foreign secretary has decided that the presence of the Syrian ambassador at the royal wedding would be unacceptable and that he should not attend."

[citizen k]

Activists report clashes between Syrian army units
By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY and DIAA HADID, Associated


BEIRUT – Members of Syrian army units have clashed with each other over carrying out President Bashar Assad's orders to crack down on protesters in the southern city of Daraa, the heart of the uprising, a witness and human rights groups said Thursday.

More than 500 people have been killed across Syria — about 100 in Daraa alone — since the popular revolt against Assad began in mid-March, according to human rights groups.

While the infighting in Daraa does not indicate any decisive splits in the military, it is significant because Assad's army always has been seen as a bastion of support for the regime. The Syrian military has denied that there had been any splits in the military.

On Thursday, more soldiers in armored personnel carriers rolled into Daraa, where residents huddled inside homes in fear amid the blasts of mortars and heavy gunfire, as well as snipers on high rooftops and mosques, a resident said by satellite telephone. Like other witnesses in Syria, he spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.

Ausama Monajed, a spokesman for a group of opposition figures in Syria and abroad, said the clashes among the soldiers have occurred since Assad sent the army into Daraa on Monday. The deployment was a clear escalation in his crackdown on the uprising.

"There are some battalions that refused to open fire on the people," Monajed told The Associated Press, citing witnesses on the ground in Daraa. "Battalions of the 5th Division were protecting people, and returned fire when they were subjected to attacks by the 4th Division."

The 4th division is run by the president's brother, Maher.

The reports were corroborated by three witnesses in Daraa and an activist contacted by the AP. All four asked that their names not be used for fear of reprisals.

A witness in Daraa told the AP that he saw soldiers from different army units clashing Monday in front of the Bilal mosque in central Daraa, when Syrian forces rolled into town. He said the battle between the forces lasted for several hours.

"We saw ordinary soldiers fall," the resident said. "And then I heard people shout "God is great! They are martyrs of freedom!"

Syria has banned nearly all foreign media and restricted access to trouble spots since the uprising began, making it almost impossible to verify the dramatic events shaking one of the most authoritarian, anti-Western regimes in the Arab world.

The government has blamed armed thugs and a foreign conspiracy for the unrest, not true reform seekers.

State-run Syrian TV has run running lingering, gruesome close-ups of dead soldiers, their eyes blown out and parts of their limbs missing, to back up their claims that they were under attack.

In a further blow to Assad, more than 200 members have quit Syria's ruling Baath Party in the southern province, a human rights activist said.

On Wednesday night, six tanks rolled into the key northern port of Latakia — in the heartland of Syria's ruling elite — and security forces opened fire on anti government demonstrators, wounding six, witnesses said.

Unrest in Latakia is significant because the province has strong historical ties to Assad's minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. Latakia is home to a diverse mix of religious groups, with mostly Sunni Muslims in the urban core and Alawites in the countryside. At least 14 people died in clashes in the city during the earlier days of the uprising, raising fears that the violence could take on a sectarian tone in coming days or weeks.

Assad has tried to crush the revolt — the gravest challenge to his family's 40-year ruling dynasty.

In the Damascus suburb of Douma, security forces strengthened their control, fortifying checkpoints on roads into the area and setting up sand barriers, a resident said.

"Security is so tight around Douma that even birds can't go in," he said, adding that security forces with lists of wanted people continued to detain residents in the area.

Troops were using heavy machine guns Thursday in Daraa, said resident Abdullah Abazeid. He added that snipers killed more people and that 43 have died since the military arrived Monday.

The latest deaths include a 6-year-old girl, hit by a sniper Wednesday on the roof of her parents' apartment. He added that pro-government gunmen known as "shabiha" damaged a large numbers of shops in the city.

Abazeid said they were still hiding the bodies of the dead because the cemetery was occupied by Syrian forces belonging to Unit Four, considered the fiercest and most violent of the troops in the town.

The city was still without telephones, electricity and water and lacked food and infant formula, he said, adding that some parents were giving their children water and sugar for lack of powder milk.

[KRonn]

The upheavals in Syria are a lot longer lasting than I would have expected. I wouldn't have expected it to last so long, given the heavy hand of the government's response. Now maybe some of the military are balking at what they're doing, but does it mean undermining the govt's position or just some units refusing to slaughter their own people, but who support the govt overall anyway?

[HisMajestyBOB]

The upheavals in Syria are a lot longer lasting than I would have expected. I wouldn't have expected it to last so long, given the heavy hand of the government's response. Now maybe some of the military are balking at what they're doing, but does it mean undermining the govt's position or just some units refusing to slaughter their own people, but who support the govt overall anyway?

I'm surprised as well. I expected that the protests would be extinguished once the government went into full Hama-style crackdown mode.

[KRonn]

The upheavals in Syria are a lot longer lasting than I would have expected. I wouldn't have expected it to last so long, given the heavy hand of the government's response. Now maybe some of the military are balking at what they're doing, but does it mean undermining the govt's position or just some units refusing to slaughter their own people, but who support the govt overall anyway?

I'm surprised as well. I expected that the protests would be extinguished once the government went into full Hama-style crackdown mode.

Plus with Iranian help in quelling the protests and uprisings!  Syria is an important ally of Iran, and Iran pulls no punches on quelling dissent.

[jamesww]

The first cracks appear ? :

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/2011428182333234775.html

Syrian army units 'clash over crackdown'

Reports say army units exchanged fire after one refused to shoot at protesters in restive city of Deraa.

Members of two Syrian army units have clashed with each other over carrying out orders to crack down on protesters in Deraa, the southern city at the heart of an anti-government uprising, according to a witness and human rights groups.

More than 500 people have been killed across Syria - about 100 in Deraa alone - since the popular revolt against the country's president, Bashar al-Assad began in mid-March, according to human rights groups.

While the infighting in Deraa does not indicate any decisive splits in the military, it is significant because the army has always been seen as a bastion of support for the regime. The Syrian military has denied that there have been any splits in the military.

On Thursday, more soldiers in armored personnel carriers rolled into Deraa while snipers took up positions on high rooftops and mosques, a resident told the AP news agency by satellite telephone. Residents were huddled inside homes in fear amid the blasts of mortars and heavy gunfire, the resident said.

Ausama Monajed, a spokesman for a group of opposition figures in Syria and abroad, said clashes among soldiers had occurred since Assad sent the army into Deraa on Monday.

The deployment was a clear escalation in his crackdown on the uprising.

"There are some battalions that refused to open fire on the people," Monajed told The Associated Press news agency, citing witnesses on the ground in Deraa.

"Battalions of the fifth division were protecting people, and returned fire when they were subjected to attacks by the fourth division."

The fourth division is run by the president's brother, Maher al-Assad.

The reports were corroborated by three witnesses in Deraa and an activist contacted by AP. All four asked that their names not be used for fear of reprisals.

A witness in Deraa told AP that he saw soldiers from different army units clashing on Monday in front of the Bilal mosque in central Deraa, when Syrian forces rolled into town. He said the battle between the forces lasted for several hours.

"We saw ordinary soldiers fall," the resident said. "And then I heard people shout "God is great! They are martyrs of freedom!"
....

The link has the full article.

If this is true, then maybe we'll see the astonishing collapse of yet another dictatorship or perhaps the beginnings of a civil war ?

[Legbiter]

The first cracks appear ?

If this is true, then maybe we'll see the astonishing collapse of yet another dictatorship or perhaps the beginnings of a civil war ?

If the Assad regime is toppled the Alawis will be brutalized/jihaded as kuffir by the Sunni majority. Standard Arab procedure, the brutal ruling dynasty, once decadence sets in, is killed off by a more vigorous new establishment, which in turn rules by pretty much the exact same methods as the old firm did.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, it'll be Iraq all over again.

[Legbiter]

Yeah, it'll be Iraq all over again.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing. It's about fucking time the Arabs fought out their own homegrown neuroses on their own turf, as is right and proper, instead of doing it in lower Manhattan.

[jamesww]

Video of defecting soldiers in Deraa:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/04/2011426115117817489.html

?

[Razgovory]

I read that as Defecating soldiers in Deraa.  I thought to myself, "Well, I'm not going to click that."

[Ed Anger]

I read that as Defecating soldiers in Deraa.  I thought to myself, "Well, I'm not going to click that."

The number of clicks from Germany skyrocketed.

[jamesww]

I read that as Defecating soldiers in Deraa.  I thought to myself, "Well, I'm not going to click that."

The number of clicks from Germany skyrocketed.

Heels or mice ?