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Euro on the brink of collapse

Started by jimmy olsen, February 12, 2010, 09:23:26 PM

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grumbler

Quote from: The Larch on February 13, 2010, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2010, 05:29:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 13, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
What a ridiculously alarmist headline.  :lol:
The more alarmist the headline, the more replies one gets. The internet is very simple that way.

The more alarmist and hysterical the headline is, the more scorn the original poster gets.
Should get, anyway.

But this is Timmay.  Not sure scorn for him could increase.  Disdain, yes.  Scorn, though?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Ed Anger

Quote from: grumbler on February 13, 2010, 10:05:58 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 13, 2010, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 13, 2010, 05:29:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 13, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
What a ridiculously alarmist headline.  :lol:
The more alarmist the headline, the more replies one gets. The internet is very simple that way.

The more alarmist and hysterical the headline is, the more scorn the original poster gets.
Should get, anyway.

But this is Timmay.  Not sure scorn for him could increase.  Disdain, yes.  Scorn, though?

I'm in "utter contempt" territory now.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on February 13, 2010, 10:04:54 AM
It's pretty amazing how ignorant Euros are of the geographic mobility of Americans!

All I can say, Tyr and Marti, is that you guys should really just stay silent on the topic until you know something about it. 

Americans generally don't move unless they need to move to find work.  If that is the case, moves generally are not "from some shit hole middle of the country state living in its equally irrelevant, unknown neighbour," because unlike (apparently) Britain, in the US economies are regional, and if there is a downturn in New Hampshire, it exists in Vermont as well.  So, moves are generally some distance.  And people who move to New York from Kentucky would not face significant social barriers, because a huge number of people already in New York are from places like Kentucky.  We don't have anything like the (apparent) Polack clannishness.

Don't take what I say as a sufficient introduction to consider yourselves experts on the topic, guys.  Learn a lot more before you post "information" on this topic (or topics about Americans generally, really).  Thanks.  :hug:
:rolleyes:
Please point out where I say I am an expert on America and am speaking the utmost truth. I quite clearly state I'm just having a little guess and would be interested in more details of where Amerians move to and from rather than just a blanket a third live outside of the state they were born.

That places like New York have people from everywhere is quite the given. But is there a big community of people from Louisianna in North Dakota and the like?
I really do think that if you're looking at people born out of state that ranking highly with many states would be their neighbours- its a lot easier to move two towns down the road and just barely over the state border than to start a new life at the other end of the country.  I can't think how to phrase this though to find such information though...birth state per state or somesuch gets nothing- I can find details for biggest foreign populations in states but not Americans.
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DGuller

I know of a guy who moved from Massachusetts to Kentucky.  He's been forced to eat out of gas stations, and wear 2000+ year clothing and footwear on occasions, but otherwise seems to be coping well.

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2010, 10:55:44 AM
:rolleyes:
Please point out where I say I am an expert on America and am speaking the utmost truth. I quite clearly state I'm just having a little guess and would be interested in more details of where Amerians move to and from rather than just a blanket a third live outside of the state they were born.

That places like New York have people from everywhere is quite the given. But is there a big community of people from Louisianna in North Dakota and the like?
I really do think that if you're looking at people born out of state that ranking highly with many states would be their neighbours- its a lot easier to move two towns down the road and just barely over the state border than to start a new life at the other end of the country.  I can't think how to phrase this though to find such information though...birth state per state or somesuch gets nothing- I can find details for biggest foreign populations in states but not Americans.

I think you'll find more moving occurs between residences in the same town, mostly for affordability.  Work moves are typically further, such as my parents moving to cut out my dad's hour-and-a-half commute from just north of Philly to down here to work as a glassblower.

Inter-community, same-state moves seem to usually be either family life-oriented (newly-ex just kicked me out and I need to go somewhere) or trying to eliminate/cut down a commute to work.

Big, cross-multiple-state moves are either moving up the job ladder or someone with enough money returning to a childhood/fantasy community.
Experience bij!

grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2010, 10:55:44 AM
:rolleyes:
Please point out where I say I am an expert on America and am speaking the utmost truth.
:rolleyes: Strawman much?

QuoteI quite clearly state I'm just having a little guess and would be interested in more details of where Amerians move to and from rather than just a blanket a third live outside of the state they were born.
You quite clearly are not saying that at all in your earlier statement.  You quite clearly are aware that you have been caught out spouting absolute rubbish, and so want to recon your statement into a question.

QuoteThat places like New York have people from everywhere is quite the given. But is there a big community of people from Louisianna in North Dakota and the like?
Sure, there are people born in Louisiana who live in North Dakota.  The people of the US don't form communities based around place of birth, though, so the Louisiana-born in North Dakota don't form a community, large or small.

QuoteI really do think that if you're looking at people born out of state that ranking highly with many states would be their neighbours- its a lot easier to move two towns down the road and just barely over the state border than to start a new life at the other end of the country.
So we are back to making statements again, after just claiming that you weren't?  :lmfao:

I am sure that there are more Maryland-born people in Virginia than Missouri-born, even though the states are similar-sized, because a Marylander may well find a cheaper house on the other side of the Potomac, and still work were he/she works in Maryland.  I am equally sure, though, that the vast majority of out-of-state-born in Virginia are not from states bordering Virginia (contrary to your assertions).
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on February 13, 2010, 11:27:28 AM
:rolleyes: Strawman much?
1: No, not really. That was your token surface point 'how dare you speak with authority about America when you know nothing about it', to quote you:
Quotell I can say, Tyr and Marti, is that you guys should really just stay silent on the topic until you know something about it. 
2: Strawman. :rolleyes: I guessed it from your first post. You're just doing your typical little trolly thing to get into pointless arguments.

Quote
You quite clearly are not saying that at all in your earlier statement.  You quite clearly are aware that you have been caught out spouting absolute rubbish, and so want to recon your statement into a question.
You should know me by now. I don't give a crap about debate club  :hug:
Quote
I am sure that there are more Maryland-born people in Virginia than Missouri-born, even though the states are similar-sized, because a Marylander may well find a cheaper house on the other side of the Potomac, and still work were he/she works in Maryland.  I am equally sure, though, that the vast majority of out-of-state-born in Virginia are not from states bordering Virginia (contrary to your assertions).
Prove it then.
That's what I'm interested in knowing.
I said though I'd imagine this would be moreso with the less important states in the middle of the country than major states.
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Razgovory

To be honest Tyr, there isn't a great difference between different states in the US.  It's not like each state has it's own several hundred years of history, or linguistic dialects (not like Europe's at least).  There are differences and people make a big deal about them, but when compared to Europe it's very small.  I suspect there are bigger regional differences in just England then there are in the US.  Only a few states feel really different.  Hawaii, and Alaska.  The rest of the country is remarkably homogenized.  Grumbler's lived all over the US (and in England I think), he probably knows better then me.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

sbr

Quote from: Tyr on February 13, 2010, 09:06:23 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 08:02:05 AM
I'm willing to bet that a very significant number of Americans are living in a state that is not the one they were born in.

A bit of googling says it's about a third.
States aren't quite the same as countries though, I'd imagine much of this moving is someone from some shit hole middle of the country state living in its equally irrelevant, unknown neighbour.
A good comparison I'd like to see is using some groupings of states- maybe those typical ones you get where it categorises them into groups such as New England, the South, Pacifica, the empty zone, etc...

The US population is moving south and west in droves.

This link was the first to come up and it has fun little maps and charts

http://pewsocialtrends.org/maps/migration/

garbon

Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 12:36:39 PM
To be honest Tyr, there isn't a great difference between different states in the US.  It's not like each state has it's own several hundred years of history, or linguistic dialects (not like Europe's at least).  There are differences and people make a big deal about them, but when compared to Europe it's very small.  I suspect there are bigger regional differences in just England then there are in the US.  Only a few states feel really different.  Hawaii, and Alaska.  The rest of the country is remarkably homogenized.  Grumbler's lived all over the US (and in England I think), he probably knows better then me.

That said. California. :wub:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Ed Anger

At certain members (you know who the fuck you are):

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ed Anger

Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 03:54:47 PM
Ed, there's anime in there.

I don't care. The goddamn retardation must be responded to.

I'm prepared to escalate to Defcon 1
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

MadImmortalMan

Good lord. The misconceptions some people have.

"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Agelastus

Quote from: Zanza on February 12, 2010, 11:15:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 12, 2010, 10:59:48 PM
In hindsight, wasn't it kind of dumb to institute one currency over a bunch of economies whose needs may be in conflict with each other?
So far the advantages seem to outweigh the disadvantages for everyone involved.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, I freely admit I am heavily biased against the Euro, due to my (to create a quote for Europhiles) "puerile nationalism", but I would think that the citizens of Greece and Ireland would disagree with you. While "death spiral" is an exagerration, the Euro is one of the major factors in the strangulation of their economies at the moment.

I don't know enough about the situation in the other European countries listed in the article to comment on them.

And since it was known when the Euro was founded that Greece was a basket case, I have no sympathy for the Eurozone members. If I recall correctly, they fiddled the entry criteria to let Greece in from the start.

The one thing I do hope is that Britain doesn't have to spend billions propping up Greece's membership in the Euro, since we are not a member of the "Eurozone". Gordon Brown is being VERY cagey about exactly what was discussed, probably because he knows if we do end up paying that could very well be the final nail in his coffin.

"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."