US Election Week 2020

[celedhring]

How do preventive pardons work? Can they word them vaguely like "any kind of criminal acts up until the time of the pardon" or do you have to name the acts being pardoned explicitly? The latter could be interesting...   

[garbon]

How do preventive pardons work? Can they word them vaguely like "any kind of criminal acts up until the time of the pardon" or do you have to name the acts being pardoned explicitly? The latter could be interesting...   

Here's the statement from Nixon's pardon.

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

[DGuller]

Is there any avenue to render the pardon invalid?  What if the pardons are used to completely circumvent the rule of law?  "Will no one rid me, the one with pardon power, of this troublesome priest?"

[Barrister]

Is there any avenue to render the pardon invalid?  What if the pardons are used to completely circumvent the rule of law?  "Will no one rid me, the one with pardon power, of this troublesome priest?"

No one knows for sure - it's never been ruled on.

The big outstanding question is what if Trump self-pardons.

[alfred russel]

The President can, but accepting a pardon, under US law, is considered a concession of guilt.  Accepting an "every crime" pardon is effectively confessing to every crime that will ever be seriously alleged.

Nope. While there is commentary in court opinions to that effect, it isn't true. If Don Jr. gets an "every crime" pardon, for example, and is sued in civil court due to harm caused by a crime he may have committed during the period covered by the pardon, he won't have been considered to have already effectively confessed to the action.

[Sheilbh]

Is there any avenue to render the pardon invalid?  What if the pardons are used to completely circumvent the rule of law?  "Will no one rid me, the one with pardon power, of this troublesome priest?"

No one knows for sure - it's never been ruled on.

The big outstanding question is what if Trump self-pardons.

Especially given the report that the DOJ are investigating money being funneled to the White House for pardons. The pardons themselves might be necessary to get away with the corruption to procure the pardons

[The Minsky Moment]

The President can, but accepting a pardon, under US law, is considered a concession of guilt.  Accepting an "every crime" pardon is effectively confessing to every crime that will ever be seriously alleged.

Nope. While there is commentary in court opinions to that effect, it isn't true. If Don Jr. gets an "every crime" pardon, for example, and is sued in civil court due to harm caused by a crime he may have committed during the period covered by the pardon, he won't have been considered to have already effectively confessed to the action.

It's a bit more complicated. The case law indicates  that accepting a pardon can be deemed an admission of guilt for certain purposes. One that could impact on Rudy is that accepting the pardon could be evidence of lack of moral fitness to practice before the bar.  It can also be considered for sentencing on a non-pardoned offense.  Although it may not be sufficient to establish civil liability, it might be admissible into evidence.

[Eddie Teach]

Shouldn't be too much of a problem, he already lacks the necessary mental acuity.

[Barrister]

The President can, but accepting a pardon, under US law, is considered a concession of guilt.  Accepting an "every crime" pardon is effectively confessing to every crime that will ever be seriously alleged.

Nope. While there is commentary in court opinions to that effect, it isn't true. If Don Jr. gets an "every crime" pardon, for example, and is sued in civil court due to harm caused by a crime he may have committed during the period covered by the pardon, he won't have been considered to have already effectively confessed to the action.

It's a bit more complicated. The case law indicates  that accepting a pardon can be deemed an admission of guilt for certain purposes. One that could impact on Rudy is that accepting the pardon could be evidence of lack of moral fitness to practice before the bar.  It can also be considered for sentencing on a non-pardoned offense.  Although it may not be sufficient to establish civil liability, it might be admissible into evidence.

Not having looked into the specific law AT ALL so just speculating here, but I can't see how accepting a pardon goes much beyond creating an adverse influence of guilt in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.

[Razgovory]

With a blanket pardon can the person getting the pardon be forced to testify as to what exactly he is being pardoned for?  Also:  If you are pardoned for a crime do you get to keep the loot?

[The Minsky Moment]

With a blanket pardon can the person getting the pardon be forced to testify as to what exactly he is being pardoned for?

Yes if they are subject to a proper subpoena or legal process compelling testimony.

[The Larch]

Also pardons are only for federal crimes, right? Anything at the state level they're still liable for, if I understood it properly, and the Trumps have several cases in NY state for their business practices.

[Valmy]

Also pardons are only for federal crimes, right? Anything at the state level they're still liable for, if I understood it properly, and the Trumps have several cases in NY state for their business practices.

Yeah he would need to get Cuomo to pardon him for NY crimes.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=720O_yBLrTs

The Most Important Speech Trump Has Ever Given.(c)

This is 46 frickin minutes long.  I tried to watch but gave up.  That's with editing too, you can see the cuts.

A little bit that I did watch was about people told at the voting site that they had already sent in an absentee ballot.  That's because those goddamn Democrats filled out an absentee ballot for them, knowing they were Trump voters.

At the very beginning you can see he's reading a teleprompter, because he does that thing where he contorts his body to get his orange face around that complicated middle school syntax.  Then a bit I caught later on you can see he's ad-libbing.

[grumbler]

Trump saying Trump things is old news.

I'd only have watched it if he gave it on that balcony at the top of the stairs of the porn shop next to Four Seasons Total Landscaping, with customers pushing him aside to get in the door, on national television.