US Election Week 2020

[Solmyr]

I kind of hope Trump abuses the shit out of his pardon powers, to the degree that Congress later moves to remove this power from the President altogether.  I don't like the idea that the President can pardon people anyway.  I realize it'll take a Constitutional amendment to get it removed, so it's therefore super unlikely, but if Trump makes enough idiotic pardons--which given how Trump is it seems likely--then maybe it'll be a possibility.

Congress has no power in this arena at all.  They can't even write a law forcing the president to use his own Presidential Pardons Office to vet the pardons.

Are these the famous checks and balances?

[Sheilbh]

Are these the famous checks and balances?

I find the pardon power really interesting because, and I have no idea if this is right, but it feels like a real vestige of the 18th century constitution - it is a descent of the royal power to grant mercy. It's not something that necessarily exists in a rational constitutional system (at least without controls), instead it's a sort of legacy of an almost Godlike, gratuitous role of the monarch in the past - even down to individuals petitioning the monarch/president for a pardon.

[The Brain]

How many countries don't have a pardon capability? In Sweden the government can grant pardons, when I looked into it just now though it's not perfectly clear to me if they can pardon people for crimes that they haven't been convicted of. Their homepage says no, but the text of the relevant law seems to say it's possible in exceptional circumstances (though the text seems a bit ambigous, I'd have to look into more detail to know for sure) and Wiki sure thinks they can pardon before the fact.

[The Brain]

That being said the government using pardons to protect its crime lieutenants would be considered beyond the pale, and more associated with countries like Hungary, Russia, or the US.

[celedhring]

How many countries don't have a pardon capability? In Sweden the government can grant pardons, when I looked into it just now though it's not perfectly clear to me if they can pardon people for crimes that they haven't been convicted of. Their homepage says no, but the text of the relevant law seems to say it's possible in exceptional circumstances (though the text seems a bit ambigous, I'd have to look into more detail to know for sure) and Wiki sure thinks they can pardon before the fact.

Yeah, we have pardons over here too. I'd be surprised if they are not a common feature in most democracies. Can't grant them before there's a judicial sentence, though.

[Sheilbh]

We have them - but they are pretty rare now. Looking it up they've largely been replaced by appeals systems and bodies whose job is to review doubtful/wrongful conviction allegations (the Criminal Case Review Commission) - it is called the royal prerogative of mercy.

This is an interesting bit by a UK lawyer on pardons in general (and Trump's in particular) - basically on how mercy operates with justice, which is different than what Trump is doing:
https://davidallengreen.com/2020/11/pardons-should-be-how-mercy-complements-justice-but-what-happens-when-pardons-undermine-justice/

[celedhring]

Over here they were pretty important during the transition to democracy, since for years courts still had to operate with Franco-era laws which had some, well, non-ideal outcomes. There are some cases of courts asking for a pardon after jailing someone.

There's been plenty of controversial ones, too (some of the people involved in the 1981 coup, some involved in the dirty war against ETA). Right now they have come to the fore because of rumors that the socialist government is going to pardon the jailed separatist leaders.

Overall I'd feel better with the pardon power if it was a legislative act rather than a largely unchecked executive one.

[Razgovory]

And here is hoping him claiming this election was full of fraud and zombie communists costs the Republicans the Senate runoffs.

That is the straw I am grasping for here 

This may actually happen.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/politics/ronna-mcdaniel-georgia-republicans/index.html

At a Saturday campaign stop in Marietta, Georgia, Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel attempted to persuade Republicans to vote in the Georgia Senate runoff elections, even as voters expressed ambivalence about expanding "money and work when it's already decided."

Incumbent Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler are facing tough reelection battles in two January runoff elections that could determine control of the US Senate.
"It's not decided. This is the key -- it's not decided," McDaniel told a fiery crowd of Republicans who turned the RNC chair's meet-and-greet session Saturday into a public airing of grievances surrounding the November 3 election.
She pointed to the certified results of the November 3 Georgia Senate race that showed Perdue leading Democratic challenger Jon Ossoff by more than 88,000 votes. In Georgia, if no candidate receives more than 50% of the vote, the two top vote-getters head to a runoff.
"So if you lose your faith and you don't vote and people walk away -- that will decide it," McDaniel said.

[Sheilbh]

Trump is going to Georgia to campaign for them - which I hadn't expected. But I feel like there's a fairly strong chance that he mainly indulges his grievances and how hard done by he has been by fraud, rather than encouraging people to turn out and vote

[Maladict]

Over here a (royal) pardon is only possible in cases where a conviction cannot be overturned using the normal procedures. The Justice department issues the pardon in the name of the king, the executive branch cannot grant one.
Plus, one of two criteria has to be met: New evidence that has come to light after conviction, or poor mental/physical health that renders the sentence moot.

[grumbler]

I kind of hope Trump abuses the shit out of his pardon powers, to the degree that Congress later moves to remove this power from the President altogether.  I don't like the idea that the President can pardon people anyway.  I realize it'll take a Constitutional amendment to get it removed, so it's therefore super unlikely, but if Trump makes enough idiotic pardons--which given how Trump is it seems likely--then maybe it'll be a possibility.

Congress has no power in this arena at all.  They can't even write a law forcing the president to use his own Presidential Pardons Office to vet the pardons.

Are these the famous checks and balances?

What are the "these" in your question?

[Sheilbh]

Over here a (royal) pardon is only possible in cases where a conviction cannot be overturned using the normal procedures. The Justice department issues the pardon in the name of the king, the executive branch cannot grant one.

Here it's technically the Queen but it's on recommendation of the government(s). I think it's been used here more for things where there's not a technical issue - so the recent posthumous pardon of Alan Turing (and the campaign for pardons of all people convicted of the gross indecency laws when homosexuality was illegal) or the guy with a conviction who helped save lives by confronting the terrorist in the London Bridge attack. It's more like they were guilty by the standards of the law - but are (now) morally innocent or deserve a clean slate.

Plus, one of two criteria has to be met: New evidence that has come to light after conviction, or poor mental/physical health that renders the sentence moot.

I'm not sure about mental/physical health but "new and compelling" evidence can get a re-trial. I think the process is the Court of Appeal technically quashes the previous trial and orders a new one (we don't have double jeopardy if there's new evidence and it's a serious crime).

[The Larch]

Georgia's election official (voting systems manager, I think) has had it with Trump's shenanigans.

https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1333919015174098950

[The Larch]

About presidential pardons, the press here is reporting (quoting NYT) that Trump is planning preventive pardons for Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Jared Kushner and Rudy Giuliani.

Is a preventive pardon a real thing? 

[Grey Fox]

IIRC, yes.

It's preventive in the sense of crime committed but not accused of yet. Not future crimes.