How would you handle covid 19?

[Camerus]

Would a Hong Kong person (other than perhaps those from the Mainland or maybe whose parents are) trust Mainland doctors and want to see them?

My impression of Mainland Chinese hospitals and the doctors in them is very low indeed. When I was living in Shenzhen, I always crossed the border into Hong Kong in order to see a Hong Kong doctor (one educated  in the UK) rather than a Mainland one.

From what I have heard anecdotally, my view is echoed across much of Hong Kong Society generally. If true, I couldn't see many people, other than perhaps the poor (who still wouldn't really want to but just couldn't afford not to) or those with immediate Mainland roots, wanting to use a Mainland doctor.

[Monoriu]

Would a Hong Kong person (other than perhaps those from the Mainland or maybe whose parents are) trust Mainland doctors and want to see them?

My impression of Mainland Chinese hospitals and the doctors in them is very low indeed. When I was living in Shenzhen, I always crossed the border into Hong Kong in order to see a Hong Kong doctor (one educated  in the UK) rather than a Mainland one.

From what I have heard anecdotally, my view is echoed across much of Hong Kong Society generally. If true, I couldn't see many people, other than perhaps the poor (who still wouldn't really want to but just couldn't afford not to) or those with immediate Mainland roots, wanting to use a Mainland doctor.

Lots of people see Mainland traditional medical practitioners in HK.  There is a general belief that when it comes to herbal medicine, Mainland ones are much better.

Your impression is correct.  Most people, including me, would want to see a doctor in HK rather than in the Mainland. 

But it is important to note the reason: the problem is with the Mainland system, not Mainland doctors.  The Mainland medical sector is much more capitalistic.  They demand cash upfront, no money = no treatment, bribes are expected, doctors screw you to make as much money as possible, etc.  Doctors in HK play by the rules. 

In HK, there are two sides in the medical field, public and private.  Private doctors is a free market.  Public sector is (basically) free and universal health care.  Now, about half the doctors serve 10% of the population in the private sector, and 90% of the people to go the public hospitals. 

There is no shortage in the private sector.  The real shortage is in the public hospitals.  Note: public hospitals pay really well.  It is the crazy workload that drives doctors away.  A lot of GPs probably earn less if they move to the private sector.  They just get their work life balance back.

The poors who enjoy free public healthcare basically have no choice regardless of what doctor they get. 

[Zoupa]

True. He just vastly overestimates the supply available.

Hong Kong is a magnet for Mainlanders.  Having a HK ID is a source of pride and prestige.  Just tell them there is no internet firewall here, and the government can't take their flats away at will.  HK doctors also earn a lot more than Mainland ones.  HK doctors make all sorts of threats against importing Mainland doctors.  They know they are totally screwed if their little protectionist guild fails.

HK might be a magnet to mainlanders, but it's not a magnet to anyone else in the world dude.

Why would any doctor move to HK, be paid a crap wage and then deal with your stupidly inflated housing prices?

Your plan is kinda dumb.

[Monoriu]

True. He just vastly overestimates the supply available.

Hong Kong is a magnet for Mainlanders.  Having a HK ID is a source of pride and prestige.  Just tell them there is no internet firewall here, and the government can't take their flats away at will.  HK doctors also earn a lot more than Mainland ones.  HK doctors make all sorts of threats against importing Mainland doctors.  They know they are totally screwed if their little protectionist guild fails.

HK might be a magnet to mainlanders, but it's not a magnet to anyone else in the world dude.

Why would any doctor move to HK, be paid a crap wage and then deal with your stupidly inflated housing prices?

Your plan is kinda dumb.

Lots of foreigners work here.  300,000 Indonesian and Filipino maids get US$500 a month and they stay for years and years.  When I go to restaurants, I see lots of white Caucasians work as chefs and waiters.  When I buy food online, 99% of the time, the driver is an Indian. 

A medical graduate easily makes more than US$150k, after tax, in the public hospitals, as a GP.  If we open that position to all medical doctors in the world, I am pretty sure tons of people from all over will apply.  The only reason that hasn't happened is because of protectionism. 

[Zoupa]

Maids and delivery drivers are not the same as doctors. Why do I even have to explain that.

Doctors who want to emigrate have about 45 better alternative destinations before they get to HK. The protectionism is there to guard against mainland doctors.

[Monoriu]

Maids and delivery drivers are not the same as doctors. Why do I even have to explain that.

Doctors who want to emigrate have about 45 better alternative destinations before they get to HK. The protectionism is there to guard against mainland doctors.

You don't know the history.  Hong Kong was a British colony not that long ago.  British and commonwealth doctors could work in Hong Kong before 1997.  Lots of Hong Kong students went to study medicine in the UK before 1997, then came back to work as doctors.  I remember seeing an English speaking doctor when I was a kid, and I had to describe my symptoms using English. 

The self-governing doctors changed the rules in 1997.  Only doctors educated in HK can practise here.  Not even HK students who studied in very good medical schools in the West.  The protectionism is there to limit the supply and screw the HK people. 

Oh and just come and take a look at Central, our financial heart.  More foreigners work in the investment banks than locals. 

[Zoupa]

Ok Mono. Sure. All the anglophone recently graduated medical students will rush to the butthole of China, with its terrible cost of living, shit air quality and lack of freedoms instead of going to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK or the US.

Makes perfect sense...

[Monoriu]

Ok Mono. Sure. All the anglophone recently graduated medical students will rush to the butthole of China, with its terrible cost of living, shit air quality and lack of freedoms instead of going to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK or the US.

Makes perfect sense...

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't 

I live here and I see lots of foreigners working here in different professions, so I don't know what you are talking about. 

[Monoriu]

Oh there is one area I do know something about.  I go to the universities all the time.  The majority of the faculty are from outside Hong Kong.  We aren't talking about drivers and maids here, and they still come despite the cost of living, air quality and what not.  You know what, as expats, they can't vote regardless of whether there is democracy anyway

In fact, I know lots of western academics working on the Mainland. 

[Eddie Teach]

So let's say some doctors would like to live and work in Hong Kong and can't because of current regulations. You lift those. Doctors start trickling in and then pay gets cut. Now, doctors who were previously satisfied start looking to leave Hong Kong. The stream of foreign doctors willing to immigrate dries up. You find yourselves short and have to raise salaries again.

The truth is that you're already part of a global market. You may be able to increase supply or to cut costs. You won't be able to do both without a significant drop in quality.

[Admiral Yi]

He will if the prevailing HK salary is higher than the prevailing world salary.

[Eddie Teach]

The world has some less well-educated docs. If you compare HK to first world countries, they're already making similar amounts.

Even the mainland doctors are certainly making way more than HK minimum wage. And their current pay is the absolute floor.

[Monoriu]

So let's say some doctors would like to live and work in Hong Kong and can't because of current regulations. You lift those. Doctors start trickling in and then pay gets cut. Now, doctors who were previously satisfied start looking to leave Hong Kong. The stream of foreign doctors willing to immigrate dries up. You find yourselves short and have to raise salaries again.

The truth is that you're already part of a global market. You may be able to increase supply or to cut costs. You won't be able to do both without a significant drop in quality.

No we aren't part of the global market.  Protectionism means, as far as doctors and nurses go, only locals can work here.  What you say may well be true, but right now we can't even try.  There is no way to test if what you say is true or not.  I say, screw the doctors, let's import doctors and see what happens   

[Admiral Yi]

The world has some less well-educated docs. If you compare HK to first world countries, they're already making similar amounts.

Even the mainland doctors are certainly making way more than HK minimum wage. And their current pay is the absolute floor.

I didn't catch the part about minimum wage.  Disregard my comment.

[Valmy]

I say, screw the doctors, let's import doctors and see what happens   

Huh. I guess I never thought the current bumblers running Hong Kong could appear wise until I started hearing Mono's ideas.