This is how society dies

[Oexmelin]

I'm happy that there are people who don't judge me for my lack of accomplishments.

[Valmy]

You can be impressed with whoever you want. Maybe extend some of your awe to people who get marginally less awesome GPA while having to deal with strained circumstances?

I admire anybody who even attempts that program. I certainly don't shit on people like you do. Besides how would I even know their circumstances?

[Valmy]

I'm happy that there are people who don't judge me for my lack of accomplishments.

I admire all kinds of things, like fighting the neverending battle of Facebook. That is certainly more than I could do.

[Oexmelin]

You can be impressed with whoever you want. Maybe extend some of your awe to people who get marginally less awesome GPA while having to deal with strained circumstances?

I admire anybody who even attempts that program. I certainly don't shit on people like you do. Besides how would I even know their circumstances?

Wtf are you talking about? You didn't get what I was saying at all.

[Zoupa]

Yeah, I don't get Valmy's comment either 

[merithyn]

You can be impressed with whoever you want. Maybe extend some of your awe to people who get marginally less awesome GPA while having to deal with strained circumstances?

I admire anybody who even attempts that program. I certainly don't shit on people like you do. Besides how would I even know their circumstances?

[mongers]

You can be impressed with whoever you want. Maybe extend some of your awe to people who get marginally less awesome GPA while having to deal with strained circumstances?

I admire anybody who even attempts that program. I certainly don't shit on people like you do. Besides how would I even know their circumstances?

Wtf are you talking about? You didn't get what I was saying at all.

Yes, weird, I'd guess some internal/home/external stress caused him to fly off the handle at a random target.

[Valmy]

You can be impressed with whoever you want. Maybe extend some of your awe to people who get marginally less awesome GPA while having to deal with strained circumstances?

I admire anybody who even attempts that program. I certainly don't shit on people like you do. Besides how would I even know their circumstances?

Wtf are you talking about? You didn't get what I was saying at all.

It just seems like you are taking an opposite position to what Yi was saying earlier. You had that huge screed of bitterness about high achievers. I think that was really unfair. Especially the part about attacking University administrators and wondering how they can sleep at night. I mean I totally get being frustrated that more people are not getting opportunities and trying to make a more just society but taking it out on individuals just trying to do their best seemed unwarranted. I would certainly never express the same level of contempt towards people doing their best under adverse circumstances that you seemed to express towards others under more favorable circumstances. We typically are not responsible for our circumstances and as such they don't really say much about us.

Yes, weird, I'd guess some internal/home/external stress caused him to fly off the handle at a random target.

You can always ask me instead of talking about me like I am not here

Anyway I took exception to his post and have for a few posts now.

[crazy canuck]

You are missing the point.

[merithyn]

I'll let Oex speak for himself, but it sounded to me like he was saying something that I've long thought. We give a lot of respect to "high achievers" when a lot of the time the reason they are high achievers is because they have nothing impeding their successes.

In your case, you were working a full-time job, raising small children, supporting a partner and paying for college on your family budget all while working on your degree. That you graduated at all is a significant accomplishment.

Someone who went to university with no concerns over money, jobs, or family, and gets straight As is definitely an accomplishment, but I don't think it warrants more accolades than your "mediocre" grades.

No, we can't know every situation of every student. But to issue a blanket "Wow, those high achievers are incredible!" is no better than issuing a blanket "Wow, those underachievers really aren't very bright" either. It's a non-entity, or should be.

[crazy canuck]

I'll let Oex speak for himself, but it sounded to me like he was saying something that I've long thought. We give a lot of respect to "high achievers" when a lot of the time the reason they are high achievers is because they have nothing impeding their successes.

In your case, you were working a full-time job, raising small children, supporting a partner and paying for college on your family budget all while working on your degree. That you graduated at all is a significant accomplishment.

Someone who went to university with no concerns over money, jobs, or family, and gets straight As is definitely an accomplishment, but I don't think it warrants more accolades than your "mediocre" grades.

No, we can't know every situation of every student. But to issue a blanket "Wow, those high achievers are incredible!" is no better than issuing a blanket "Wow, those underachievers really aren't very bright" either. It's a non-entity, or should be.

Yes, and all in the context of adoring high achievers in an increasingly unequal society.  A kid from a privileged background has no excuse not to be a high achiever all other things being equal.

[Oexmelin]

I'll let Oex speak for himself, but it sounded to me like he was saying something that I've long thought. We give a lot of respect to "high achievers" when a lot of the time the reason they are high achievers is because they have nothing impeding their successes.

In your case, you were working a full-time job, raising small children, supporting a partner and paying for college on your family budget all while working on your degree. That you graduated at all is a significant accomplishment.

Someone who went to university with no concerns over money, jobs, or family, and gets straight As is definitely an accomplishment, but I don't think it warrants more accolades than your "mediocre" grades.

No, we can't know every situation of every student. But to issue a blanket "Wow, those high achievers are incredible!" is no better than issuing a blanket "Wow, those underachievers really aren't very bright" either. It's a non-entity, or should be.

Precisely.

I also think this concern over grades as proxy for worth  is highly detrimental to the students themselves. I care a whole lot about my students, but, as I tell them frequently, I care a lot more about them as human beings and citizens than I care about their "accomplishments" especially when the measure of their accomplishments is often some kind of highly problematic metric. I find it sad that this is not a message they have often received from adults - and it shows.

EDIT: Indeed, that Valmy reads my post as if such a stance equals contempt for students seems indicative of my whole issue with the notion of achievement.

[garbon]

How many people realistically fit the pool of no concerns over family, jobs or money?

[mongers]

How many people realistically fit the pool of no concerns over family, jobs or money?

34.5% of people who attended an Oxbridge college. 

[merithyn]

How many people realistically fit the pool of no concerns over family, jobs or money?

I would argue that enough do that to use grades as a major success measure is to seriously undervalue a whole lot of really good students working under very difficult circumstances.

Full disclosure: I was a first-gen college student who struggled significantly during college because I didn't have family support. Not because they didn't care, but because they has zero idea what I was dealing with. That lack of support definitely had an impact on my ability to succeed.