Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Berkut]

Jesus, wtf.

Nobody is selling a trip to Mars as a death sentence, and the people we send are not going to "panic" the moment something goes wrong because they know nobody will come rescue them.

There are literally hundreds of scenarios where people are in situation where rescue is not possible, and something goes wrong. Sometimes they are able to figure out a solution, and sometimes not. But the idea that the reality that something might go wrong somehow invalidates the possibility of the effort is just bullshit.

Nobody could rescue the Apollo 13 guys, and they didn't all promptly go mad.

And the statement "If something goes wrong on Mars, you are dead. " is just simply and clearly totally fucking not true.

Things will definitely go wrong. Lots of them probably. Things go wrong all the damn time. Sometimes that results in people ending up dead, most of the time it is dealt with because we have really smart engineers and capable human beings who are trained to deal with the unexpected.

A trip to Mars is not fundamentally any different then a trip to the Moon, just a lot longer and more complicated, with a lot more that can go wrong. But a trip to the Moon was not any different then a trip into orbit- just a lot longer and more complicated, with a lot more that can go wrong.

This pessimism is just bizarre. 

There are good arguments to be made that we should not be going to Mars at all. But the idea that human lack the mental capacity to handle the risk is simply not one of them.

[The Larch]

Matt Damon showed us it could be done.

[HVC]

And man conquered mars by pooping on potatoes.

[The Larch]

And man conquered mars by pooping on potatoes.

If that's what it takes to conquer Mars... 

[crazy canuck]

Gates bight the DOS operating system iirc for 50k

Best purchase ever - and he was lucky enough to have a dad who could front the cash.

Just a friendly suggestion CC - google before posting. 

Bill Gates famously SOLD DOS for $50k to IBM.

BB, you might want to check your google skills.  Thankfully I actually remember this happening - there was a report about it in a documentary that was made sometime in the 90s.

So I went to the google machine, as you suggested, and found an article that set it out in fairly easy to understand language for you.

In July 1981 Microsoft bought all rights to 86-DOSOffsite Link, otherwise known as QDOS, for Quick and Dirty Operating System, from Seattle Computer ProductsOffsite Link for $50,000 or $75,000, depending on how the cost is calculated. They renamed it MS-DOS.

https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=99

Microsoft did not sell MS-DOS to IBM, they sold a license to use it as the operating system - and Microsoft was off to the races.

[viper37]

But the idea that human lack the mental capacity to handle the risk is simply not one of them.

I have lost a lot of faith in the human race in the last few years.

Here's one text about it:
https://clapway.com/2016/03/25/first-humans-on-mars-will-die-quickly/

And here's another one:
https://thenextweb.com/news/good-luck-on-mars-die-horrific-death

And one more from the Man himself:
https://www.space.com/elon-musk-mars-spacex-risks-astronauts-die

[viper37]

Yeah but a bad start would be counter-productive. We shouldn't do it without doing everything conceivable to ensure success.

If going to Mars is understood to be a death sentence we will quickly run out of volunteers.

Yeah. well, colonization in Canada was slightly delayed after everyone died of horrible diseases, cold exposure and conflict with local Indians.  It nearly took a century after Cartier and even with Champlain, it was touch & go for a while.  Serious colonization effort didn't really began until around 1660-1663, 130 years after Cartier first establish a colony and trading posts, over 50 years after Champlain founded Quebec.

I'm out of touch with my Spanish and British colonization history, but IIRC, it was a rocky start over there too?

Colonizing a planet like Mars will be made extra difficult by the fact that you can't live anywhere outside of a domed city.  And we have no idea what kind of resources are there.  North America was worth it for the furs and the fisheries.  South America was worth it for the gold.  

I believe we will need some more unmanned exploration of Mars to determine its real worth before we send people there.

Oh well. If Elon pays for it, if people and their families are ok with dying, it really is their choice.  So long as it's not up to a government or governments to bail them out...

[The Brain]

What's the legal situation today regarding Mars? There's a LOT of real estate up for grabs.

[Barrister]

What's the legal situation today regarding Mars? There's a LOT of real estate up for grabs.

Covered by the Outer Space Treaty, which states the moon and other celestial bodies is free for the use of all people.

[The Brain]

What's the legal situation today regarding Mars? There's a LOT of real estate up for grabs.

Covered by the Outer Space Treaty, which states the moon and other celestial bodies is free for the use of all people.

Which a state set up on Mars may or may not choose to sign.

[Valmy]

Yeah but a bad start would be counter-productive. We shouldn't do it without doing everything conceivable to ensure success.

If going to Mars is understood to be a death sentence we will quickly run out of volunteers.

Yeah. well, colonization in Canada was slightly delayed after everyone died of horrible diseases, cold exposure and conflict with local Indians.  It nearly took a century after Cartier and even with Champlain, it was touch & go for a while.  Serious colonization effort didn't really began until around 1660-1663, 130 years after Cartier first establish a colony and trading posts, over 50 years after Champlain founded Quebec.

I'm out of touch with my Spanish and British colonization history, but IIRC, it was a rocky start over there too?

Sure people died but lots of money opportunities in tobacco planting and bloody civil war back in Blighty made for a pretty fast start all things considered.

But I might add their deaths were not streamed and tweeted about to the people back home.

[The Brain]

With a private actor looking not unlikely to lead the first settlement of Mars, and that private actor being Elon Musk, a sovereign state being quickly declared on Mars (probably called &]/%/&R&/&%¤) seems a lot more likely now than it used to.

[Jacob]

With a private actor looking not unlikely to lead the first settlement of Mars, and that private actor being Elon Musk, a sovereign state being quickly declared on Mars (probably called &]/%/&R&/&%¤) seems a lot more likely now than it used to.

The whole "declare a sovereign state" thing may not be as simple as it used to be. I mean, we have these alleged micro-nations here and there, but no one consider them real I don't think. If Musk declares himself the Sovereign of &]/%/&R&/&%¤ but the rest of the world (especially the US), then what?

&]/%/&R&/&%¤ is probably not going to be self-sustaining for quite a while and so will be very very vulnerable to embargoes and sanctions. Much of Musk's wealth and influence is bound up in the US financial system. If he declares himself the ruler of &]/%/&R&/&%¤, what's to stop the US from saying "we do not recognize this alleged 'state' and we are freezing Musk's assets until he complies with US law".

I think a precondition for declaring independence is the ability to be self-sustaining, and it may be a bit optimistic to predict that happening in Musk's lifetime.

I mean, how long until we land people on Mars for a first visit? 10 years, optimisitcally? And then from that first visit, to building a base that can sustain a continued presence? And then from there to self-sustaining? I'd expect it to take a while.

[viper37]

The whole "declare a sovereign state" thing may not be as simple as it used to be. I mean, we have these alleged micro-nations here and there, but no one consider them real I don't think. If Musk declares himself the Sovereign of &]/%/&R&/&%¤ but the rest of the world (especially the US), then what?

&]/%/&R&/&%¤ is probably not going to be self-sustaining for quite a while and so will be very very vulnerable to embargoes and sanctions. Much of Musk's wealth and influence is bound up in the US financial system. If he declares himself the ruler of &]/%/&R&/&%¤, what's to stop the US from saying "we do not recognize this alleged 'state' and we are freezing Musk's assets until he complies with US law".

I think a precondition for declaring independence is the ability to be self-sustaining, and it may be a bit optimistic to predict that happening in Musk's lifetime.

I mean, how long until we land people on Mars for a first visit? 10 years, optimisitcally? And then from that first visit, to building a base that can sustain a continued presence? And then from there to self-sustaining? I'd expect it to take a while.

If history serves us as a lesson:
These colonies will serve specific private interests and than be taken over or bailed out by the government of these investors.

The idea of micro nations was to use them as tax shelter by billionaire libertarians.  They could declare their place of residency to be some tiny island/platform, actually live there for a few weeks/months per year, avoid paying taxes in their country while still keeping real estate in real countries.  In the end, Monaco and Liechtenstein proved more successful and generally more secure at this type of business.

[crazy canuck]

I have some great crater side property to sell everyone who thinks Mars colonization is viable.