Muslims kill more Christians, this time in Pakistan

[viper37]

Edit: I gotta admire, though, how, after all those years, you still hate grallon with passion strong enough to libel him as a pedophile.

Viper, your entire response to my point that you can't just trot out particular examples of non-Muslim extremism to counter systemic Islamic extremism is to...trot out more specific examples of non-Islamic extremism without even trying to show that those examples are systemic.

As such, your argument is completely non-responsive.

Of course it is non responsive to you.
You look at a very precise time, right now.  You look at a very specific act, suicide bombing.  You ignore all other types of extremism.  You ignore the facts that contradicts your views of a religion to determine that this religion is problematic.  You don't care if Budhists use their religion to discriminate (to say the least) against muslims, Islam is Evil, the others are not.  You don't really care if Christians give their support to palestinian (and other) terror groups.  You don't really care if some terrorist groups get support from a lot of people that not muslim, you have determined that Islam is evil and you will only look at the arguments that support your view, eveything else is irrelevant to you.

And you completely miss the mark.  Not because you lack intelligence to reason, quite the opposite, but because you insist on displaying bad faith at every turn, in nearly every argument you enter.

What can I say?  Nothing really.  People like you and Trump will focus on the global religion instead of the specific subgroups that creates the problems for everyone.  It's like banning Ford cars from the US because a speficic subcontractors with wich Ford has cut ties decades ago has produced and is still producing faulty replacement parts for a few models of Ford cars.

Fight the fanatics on their grounds.  It is an idelogicial war, not a religious one.  It is a war that is fought has much with bombs as with ideas.  Secularims is the way to go, for all religions, and we must start in our own countries, by offering a safe haven for these muslims that really seek a new life, free from these extremists.  That is not what is happening right now as we oscillate between the far left  carebears strategy of Justin Trudeau and the extreme right wing policies of the Front National and similar movements. 

You have chosen to adopt the Trump's rethoric that all of Islam is to blame.  No amount of argument from anyone could convince you otherwise.  Why even argue?   Well, I'm done

[derspiess]

Was global warming cited as a reason for the attack?

[Berkut]

Edit: I gotta admire, though, how, after all those years, you still hate grallon with passion strong enough to libel him as a pedophile.

Viper, your entire response to my point that you can't just trot out particular examples of non-Muslim extremism to counter systemic Islamic extremism is to...trot out more specific examples of non-Islamic extremism without even trying to show that those examples are systemic.

As such, your argument is completely non-responsive.

Of course it is non responsive to you.
You look at a very precise time, right now.

Right now is the time we are talking about. The fact that other people did shitty things at other times is not an excuse for those doing them now.

You look at a very specific act, suicide bombing.

This is a lie. I've mention a very wide range of behaviors that are problematic. I doubt I've even brought up the specific term "suicide bombing".

You ignore all other types of extremism.

That is a bald faced lie.

  You ignore the facts that contradicts your views of a religion to determine that this religion is problematic.

No, I dispute the claim that because there are other kinds of extremism, THIS particular extremism isn't to be worried about or considered separately.

You don't care if Budhists use their religion to discriminate (to say the least) against muslims, Islam is Evil, the others are not.

That is such an incredibly dishonest claim about my beliefs and what I said that I think further discussion is pointless.

You don't really care if Christians give their support to palestinian (and other) terror groups.

What
The
Fuck

  You don't really care if some terrorist groups get support from a lot of people that not muslim, you have determined that Islam is evil and you will only look at the arguments that support your view, eveything else is irrelevant to you.

And you completely miss the mark.  Not because you lack intelligence to reason, quite the opposite, but because you insist on displaying bad faith at every turn, in nearly every argument you enter.

What can I say?  Nothing really.  People like you and Trump

LOL, this is just down right funny. Now I am "like Trump".

My beliefs are almost directly contradictory to what Trump has spoiuted off about. Who in gods name are you arguing against here?

will focus on the global religion instead of the specific subgroups that creates the problems for everyone.  It's like banning Ford cars from the US because a speficic subcontractors with wich Ford has cut ties decades ago has produced and is still producing faulty replacement parts for a few models of Ford cars.

Now that is a tortured analogy.

Fight the fanatics on their grounds.  It is an idelogicial war, not a religious one.

Religion is an ideology, and refusing to understand that because it makes you uncomfortable will doom any effort to failure.

It is a war that is fought has much with bombs as with ideas.  Secularims is the way to go, for all religions, and we must start in our own countries, by offering a safe haven for these muslims that really seek a new life, free from these extremists.  That is not what is happening right now as we oscillate between the far left  carebears strategy of Justin Trudeau and the extreme right wing policies of the Front National and similar movements. 

You have chosen to adopt the Trump's rethoric that all of Islam is to blame.  No amount of argument from anyone could convince you otherwise.  Why even argue?   Well, I'm done

You were done some time ago, I suspect.

My position is so far from this ridiculous caricature that I don't even know where to begin.

[The Brain]

Menachem.

[Queequeg]

These things go in odd cycles.

Last century, first half, I'd have said that the cause of most of the world's problems was European ethnic nationalism; most of the second half, the apparently unstoppable spread of various flavors of communism. Muslim extremism would have barely registered as a footnote in the first half, but has grown increasingly prominent in the second half, and now seems to dominate the discourse. 

If anyone in 1900 had said that in the future the most violent international problem would be militant Islam, they'd have been laughed at. 

The Mahdi Rebellion, the Hamidian Massacres, the Sepoy Rebellion....if you gave them some basic info on demographic expansion of the ME an SE Asia relative to Europe it would not seem totally implausible. 

[Razgovory]

And it's possible the US will be invaded by Bantu tribesman in the 2116, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Malthus]

These things go in odd cycles.

Last century, first half, I'd have said that the cause of most of the world's problems was European ethnic nationalism; most of the second half, the apparently unstoppable spread of various flavors of communism. Muslim extremism would have barely registered as a footnote in the first half, but has grown increasingly prominent in the second half, and now seems to dominate the discourse. 

If anyone in 1900 had said that in the future the most violent international problem would be militant Islam, they'd have been laughed at. 

The Mahdi Rebellion, the Hamidian Massacres, the Sepoy Rebellion....if you gave them some basic info on demographic expansion of the ME an SE Asia relative to Europe it would not seem totally implausible.

Huh? The only one of those that has connection to "militant Islam" is the Mahdi Rebellion - which was considered, at the time, to be a peculiarity of darkest Sudan (the "mad Mahdi"), not something at all relevant to Islam as a whole.

The others had little to do with Militant Islam - the Hamidian Massacres were the work of  Sultan Abdul Hamid II, who felt the Christian powers were attempting to usurp his empire by appealing to Christian ethnic minorities, so launched terrible pogroms when pressed for reforms -  so more along the lines of "toxic ethno-nationalism", akin to what the Russians were doing to Jews (only with Kurdish bandits instead of Cossacks).

Most of the Sepoys who rebelled were Hindu!

[grumbler]

(snip)
You were done some time ago, I suspect.

My position is so far from this ridiculous caricature that I don't even know where to begin.

The Viper truth is simple to understand:  either you believe what Viper believes, or you believe in everything he despises.  No grays in Viper's world, but then there are no grays in any child's world.  It's really rather intriguing, in a way.  It makes you wonder what he will be like when he grows up.

[Solmyr]

Those Muslims, never condemning terrorism.

http://unitedhumanists.com/2016/03/27/70000-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaeda-and-others/

[Martinus]

Those Muslims, never condemning terrorism.

http://unitedhumanists.com/2016/03/27/70000-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaeda-and-others/

Dude, who the fuck cares? Likely those clerics still believe you should kill people for apostasy or homosexuality, and that women are second class citizens.

[Martinus]

Also, I like that part:

They said Western powers should focus on stopping the terrorists but not at the cost of civilian lives.

Well, sorry, how about you get your own leaders to stop the terrorists first, and then Western powers don't have to.

[Berkut]

Also, I like that part:

They said Western powers should focus on stopping the terrorists but not at the cost of civilian lives.

Well, sorry, how about you get your own leaders to stop the terrorists first, and then Western powers don't have to.

Damn, Marty, you just cannot find anything fucking positive, can you?

This is exactly the kind of thing the West needs to applaud, not whine and bitch that if you cannot solve the entire problem yourselves, don't do anything at all.

These ARE their leaders, these are exactly the people who need to be preaching this - and of course they don't want civilians killed in the process. It is completely normal for them to demand something like that, even if we all know (and of course they know as well) that it isn't possible.

[Martinus]

Also, I like that part:

They said Western powers should focus on stopping the terrorists but not at the cost of civilian lives.

Well, sorry, how about you get your own leaders to stop the terrorists first, and then Western powers don't have to.

Damn, Marty, you just cannot find anything fucking positive, can you?

This is exactly the kind of thing the West needs to applaud, not whine and bitch that if you cannot solve the entire problem yourselves, don't do anything at all.

These ARE their leaders, these are exactly the people who need to be preaching this - and of course they don't want civilians killed in the process. It is completely normal for them to demand something like that, even if we all know (and of course they know as well) that it isn't possible.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. 

[Berkut]

Also, I like that part:

They said Western powers should focus on stopping the terrorists but not at the cost of civilian lives.

Well, sorry, how about you get your own leaders to stop the terrorists first, and then Western powers don't have to.

Damn, Marty, you just cannot find anything fucking positive, can you?

This is exactly the kind of thing the West needs to applaud, not whine and bitch that if you cannot solve the entire problem yourselves, don't do anything at all.

These ARE their leaders, these are exactly the people who need to be preaching this - and of course they don't want civilians killed in the process. It is completely normal for them to demand something like that, even if we all know (and of course they know as well) that it isn't possible.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. 

Not at all. I don't understand how anyone could see a story like that as anything but positive.

[Razgovory]

Cause Marty hates those people?