Due to low birth rate, Japan abolishes social sciences, STEM for all.

[Ed Anger]

They aren't. Man up millinials.

[The Minsky Moment]

Anyway, the actual social sciences depend upon STEM methods and training in data-driven approaches.  Otherwise, it's anecdote-driven bloviation.  And the latter is exactly what is mostly taught in history and English departments--the Hobby Colleges of our universities.  Indeed, as far as the enrichment of the soul is concerned, an appreciation for art, culture, truth, and beauty, and so forth, is far better cultivated outside of the perfunctory, top-down, pseudo-intellectual system of rentseeking that actually exists in our centers of higher education.

1.  Pure mathematics is not much more directly applicable to job tasks than French lit.  The social sciences are among the most significant areas where mathematics is applied and many of the "data-driven" methods you refer to derive from those disciplines.

2. There isn't infinite demand for coders or chemists.

3.  In the white collar world, key skills include effective verbal and written communication, high-level reading comprehension, ability to collaborate effectively in teams, ability to persuade others, critical reasoning, creativity.    The business world is a complex, social world and does not follow predictable rules.  That's not to say that studying English or sociology is the way to build those skills, but it's also true that getting a BS in a STEM discipline is not an surefire way of acquiring them either.

4.  It's kind of depressing that you went to university and that it all you got it of it.  Of course, there is plenty of careerism, posturing, and "pseudo-intellectual bloviating" at all universities.  There are also smart and talented people - fellow students or profs pursuing interesting research programs - and not just at the "elite" institutions.  It's up to the student to make the most of that opportunity.

[DGuller]

1.  Pure mathematics is not much more directly applicable to job tasks than French lit.  The social sciences are among the most significant areas where mathematics is applied and many of the "data-driven" methods you refer to derive from those disciplines.

Can you elaborate on this first point?  I wonder whether I'm just not familiar with some applications, or we're defining social sciences, significant, and/or data-driven differently.

[MadImmortalMan]

Government bureaucrats aren't perfect.  But this is better than the other option, which is to let the universities do whatever they want with taxpayer money without consequences. 

Those aren't the only two options. 

[Razgovory]

They aren't. Man up millinials.

I find the whole concept bizarre.  I wouldn't even know about that shit if wasn't fore Spellus.  You know what wasn't microagression?  When some asshole came at me with a fucking bat calling me a kike.  I'm not even a Jew!

[Eddie Teach]

Maybe he meant to call you a dyke.

[Razgovory]

Seedy thought I looked like a Jew as well.

[The Brain]

"as well"?

[The Minsky Moment]

Can you elaborate on this first point?  I wonder whether I'm just not familiar with some applications, or we're defining social sciences, significant, and/or data-driven differently.

Modern economics is essential a branch of applied mathematics and a big trend right now is creative experimental design and improving statistical technique.

[Ideologue]

Anyway, the actual social sciences depend upon STEM methods and training in data-driven approaches.  Otherwise, it's anecdote-driven bloviation.  And the latter is exactly what is mostly taught in history and English departments--the Hobby Colleges of our universities.  Indeed, as far as the enrichment of the soul is concerned, an appreciation for art, culture, truth, and beauty, and so forth, is far better cultivated outside of the perfunctory, top-down, pseudo-intellectual system of rentseeking that actually exists in our centers of higher education.

1.  Pure mathematics is not much more directly applicable to job tasks than French lit.  The social sciences are among the most significant areas where mathematics is applied and many of the "data-driven" methods you refer to derive from those disciplines.

Maybe that's even true--let's assume for the moment it is, although I have reason to doubt that the analytical and quantitative skills taught in pure math are less applicable than the analytical skills taught in French literature (outside of a job as French translator or a similar job where French fluency is required, anyway).  Most people forced to accept that the signaling content of a French lit degree and the signaling content of a mathematics degree are wildly different.  Whether this should be the case is a matter for debate--I'm sympathetic to the notion Moltke raised, that corps are adamant in their refusal to train new hires and develop their own human capital, I truly am.  But if a recent high school grad were to ask either of us for advice, I hope we could be clear-eyed enough to give advice about the world as it is, not the world as we wish it were.

2. There isn't infinite demand for coders or chemists.

No, and I never said there was; but meanwhile, there is near-zero demand for historians.

3.  In the white collar world, key skills include effective verbal and written communication, high-level reading comprehension, ability to collaborate effectively in teams, ability to persuade others, critical reasoning, creativity.    The business world is a complex, social world and does not follow predictable rules.  That's not to say that studying English or sociology is the way to build those skills, but it's also true that getting a BS in a STEM discipline is not an surefire way of acquiring them either.

Certainly I agree when it comes to communication, and writing courses are something people need, even if they don't need English degrees; and my understanding is that STEM majors tend to not get the kind of instruction they need in this regard.  I'd aver that teamwork is almost certainly taught better in STEM courses, where group projects are more commonplace and involve tangible goals and results.  (Whereas the core of humanities education is the essay, an essentially solitary pursuit.)

4.  It's kind of depressing that you went to university and that it all you got it of it.  Of course, there is plenty of careerism, posturing, and "pseudo-intellectual bloviating" at all universities.  There are also smart and talented people - fellow students or profs pursuing interesting research programs - and not just at the "elite" institutions.

It's really hard not to ask, "How would you know?"  You work in a white shoe Manhattan law firm.  Obviously, what you see and what I see would be different, since we inhabit different worlds.

If anything, it's kind of depressing how good an ideological structure like the American university system can be at reproducing itself within its students.  Let me see if you'll concede this extremely narrow point: on a financial level, college degrees are mainly economic signaling devices, and some colleges and programs are more worthwhile at delivering signals that people actually want to hear.

It's up to the student to make the most of that opportunity.

Bootstraps!

[DGuller]

Can you elaborate on this first point?  I wonder whether I'm just not familiar with some applications, or we're defining social sciences, significant, and/or data-driven differently.

Modern economics is essential a branch of applied mathematics and a big trend right now is creative experimental design and improving statistical technique.

Well, I think economics is special, and not merely a "social science".  It by its nature is a very quantitative field, and the fact that's it's not a hard science yet is more due to the fact that it's still in the dark ages rather than because it is an inherently social science field.  If that's the only example, then I'm not convinced.

[Savonarola]

Certainly I agree when it comes to communication, and writing courses are something people need, even if they don't need English degrees; and my understanding is that STEM majors tend to not get the kind of instruction they need in this regard.

For my major we  had to take a year of communication courses as well as a series of junior or senior level courses in the social studies or humanities.  I think that's standard in STEM fields, the goal is to make you a well rounded techie.

I'd aver that teamwork is almost certainly taught better in STEM courses, where group projects are more commonplace and involve tangible goals and results.  (Whereas the core of humanities education is the essay, an essentially solitary pursuit.)

When I was in graduate school I took a physics lab.  I was talking with the prof and one of the over-achiever physics grad students one day.

Grad Student:  I wish my courses had more group projects and teamwork!
Savonarola:  If you were put on a group project, you'd end up doing all the work.
Professor:  Then it's good preparation for the real world.
Savonarola:  Well, yes, that's true   

[DGuller]

Group projects in college are inane.  In the real world, you have a manager with some level of authority overseeing everyone's contributions, so in a non-dysfunctional workplace, free-riding is limited.  In college group projects, it's anarchy and a game of chicken.  The one who cares the most about the grade will be the first one to yield and actually get shit done.

[Josquius]

Unlike Sweden Japan doesn't look like a Third World shithole with rampant vandalism, beggars everywhere etc. I have more confidence in Japan's abilities to overcome the challenges of the next 100 years than I have in Sweden's.

Unlike most western countries it does have abandoned decaying buildings and disjointed incomplete  road barriers everywhere though.

Seriously?  You been in Swiss Heaven that long?

I've never been to the US (though I assume Detroit isn't the norm there) but if it is like that then its just one western country.
Of European countries I've been to...Even Romania had nothing on Japan for abandoned buildings and urban decay.

[The Brain]

Group projects in college are inane.  In the real world, you have a manager with some level of authority overseeing everyone's contributions, so in a non-dysfunctional workplace, free-riding is limited.  In college group projects, it's anarchy and a game of chicken.  The one who cares the most about the grade will be the first one to yield and actually get shit done.

Yeah it's such an artificial thing.