EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Sheilbh]

I don't get the arbitrariness here.

What is the standard for 'body positive' vs 'body negative'?

The issue isn't the body. The issue was the tag line 'Are you beach body ready?' There were posters of bikini-clad women last year that didn't attract that attention, there still are. Those posters will be fine because they're advertising holidays, clothes, perfumes, whatever - they're not suggesting that you should have that type body.

Though for what it's worth the Advertising Standards Agency (which is totally different) does uphold complaints on 'unhealthily underweight' models in adverts:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jun/03/yves-saint-laurent-ad-ban-underweight-model

So? The standards should be clear and consistent. 'Body negative' is not a standard. It is an arbitrary emotional reaction that some might have and others might not. Arbitrary rules are made to be abused. It is unreasonable to force advertisers to risk money with such an arbitrary law.

'Body negative' isn't the issue. It's whether the ad is promoting ('Are you beach body ready?') an unhealthy or unrealistic body image. The other point I'd make about that is that I think there might be more tolerance for this ad if it was for a gym, or to eat less - but it was for protein shakes.

Every single girl you know flips out at diet supplements and gym ads? I don't believe you.

No, over this advert. Genuinely I remember being in the pub - it was in the news at the time - and one girl saying about the 'fucking beach body ready' advert and every girl was loud and angry about it

And my female friends are, none of them, overweight.

TfL isn't the only place one can advertise. Surely the new steering body would tell advertisers whether or not they would accept a proposed ad run before they actually paid to rent the space (though clearly not before they'd already created an ad).

Yeah. I mean TFL outsource their advertising to a couple of big agencies who sell the space. I imagine other agencies would liaise with a potential big deal to check things like that - just like they would if they were spending their clients' money in the Sun or on ITV.

Oh God I have been getting this shit from Sheilbh lately.

Whaaat!?

Oh. Well, look V, if you come out in favour of post-modern architecture you know what's going to happen

It IS highly arbitrary because it seems like the rule is totally up to the ruling person's personal interpretation and opinion.

There's a private sector firm that is selling advertising space for TFL - their client. They've got a policy they've got to adhere too and in addition to all the other stuff that was already in there (no politics, no controversial topics etc) there's now a new standard. It's no more arbitrary than any other commercial deal. Chances are if people are kicking up a fuss with it the board of TFL will make a decision.

The complaints about the thing last year were to the ASA which is the regulator and they allowed the advert - which is why Labour candidates were saying they'd change the TFL policy.

Which YES means that any advert showing a non-fat human body will be subject for censorship and such will have to bribe its way through.

No it isn't. I remember the ads last year which showed a lad in swimming shorts and a girl in a bikini stepping off the tube and onto the beach. That didn't cause any fuss - it would still be allowed. The Jean-Paul Gaultier perfume ads would still be allowed. The H&M girls cavorting in bikinis advert would still be allowed. The issue was not ever the body (which wasn't dangerously underweight) it was the slogan - hence the memes of, for example, Harryhausen skeletons or Millais' Ophelia with the slogan.

[Sheilbh]

It IS highly arbitrary because it seems like the rule is totally up to the ruling person's personal interpretation and opinion.

Which YES means that any advert showing a non-fat human body will be subject for censorship and such will have to bribe its way through.

This isn't Hungary.

Yeah power is never abused elsewhere.

The UK's massively corrupt but we've got private sector corruption. We're a country that's very indifferent to where you or your money is from if you've got enough of it. But our public corruption scandals are really pretty pathetic.

[Valmy]

The only problematic thing that I can see is that the gov't happens to be said owners.

Yes. If this was something some puritanical billboard owner decided it would not be news. But instead this is the organization that is supposed to regulate what the rest of us do. Granted it is a municipality, but a pretty important one.

The issue isn't the body. The issue was the tag line 'Are you beach body ready?' There were posters of bikini-clad women last year that didn't attract that attention, there still are. Those posters will be fine because they're advertising holidays, clothes, perfumes, whatever - they're not suggesting that you should have that type body.

Right. But that could be done in many fitness/supplement type ads.

Though for what it's worth the Advertising Standards Agency (which is totally different) does uphold complaints on 'unhealthily underweight' models in adverts:

Fair enough. But that woman does not strike me as unhealthily underweight, you can clearly see she has a tummy. But I guess she is right there on the line.

Body negative' isn't the issue. It's whether the ad is promoting ('Are you beach body ready?') an unhealthy or unrealistic body image. The other point I'd make about that is that I think there might be more tolerance for this ad if it was for a gym, or to eat less - but it was for protein shakes.

That seems weird to me.

No, over this advert. Genuinely I remember being in the pub - it was in the news at the time - and one girl saying about the 'fucking beach body ready' advert and every girl was loud and angry about it

Well I can certainly see that being annoying. But that seems to contradict what you said before: that ad could have easily been for a gym saying 'are you beach body ready?'

Whaaat!?

Oh. Well, look V, if you come out in favour of post-modern architecture you know what's going to happen

From the Gay Spa thread thing. After I criticized how some people were exercising their right to petition and you countered by saying they have the right to petition. Of course they have the right to petition I wasn't demanding that be taken away

And I wouldn't be caught dead in a post-modern architectured building!

[Valmy]

By the way I watched those Jonathan Meade videos and man that guy is kind of a nutter isn't he? Still really interesting. Italy definitely had the most stylish totalitarianism.

[Sheilbh]

By the way I watched those Jonathan Meade videos and man that guy is kind of a nutter isn't he? Still really interesting. Italy definitely had the most stylish totalitarianism.

Hope you enjoyed 

I love his style. It's very eccentric, but normally dense with ideas and argument which I love.

As I say I wish Marti had discovered him instead of Milo because he's a far better provocateur - his ones on the Nazis and Stalin are probably his best.

Agreed. It's right. Italy's is the only totalitarian architecture that has an afterlife.

[Sheilbh]

Right. But that could be done in many fitness/supplement type ads.

Yeah. I think they're quite careful how they do it though. It's about it being fun, or macho (especially in the City), or unlocking the better you or whatever else. It's not implying anything like: to enjoy your holiday you should look like this you drunken, slobbering mess (I may have taken this advert personally).

Well I can certainly see that being annoying. But that seems to contradict what you said before: that ad could have easily been for a gym saying 'are you beach body ready?'

Maybe for some of them. One of those girls does marathons in under three and a half hours and isn't convinced fat people should be allowed to use the NHS. Even she was outraged

[Richard Hakluyt]

It was a shit ad that offended many people.

But is a ban really necessary?

Most ads are shit. I think the ones that most irritate me are the car ads at the cinema. Drive another tedious generic box and get FREEDOM and women...........bah!!

Perhaps the ads we should ban are the ones we like?

[Sheilbh]

I mean it's not a ban and I think it's fair for TFL to be choosy about their adverts. Ultimately they are a public body so in my view should steer clear (as their policies already have) of anything controversial.

But more importantly it's not like the TV or a newspaper. I can't just change channel or turn over. I have to quietly stew facing that advert every day on my bloody commute - at 730 in the morning when anyone exhorting me to be my best self can fuck right off and at the end of the day chowing down on a discounted Tesco sandwich

[Richard Hakluyt]

My favourites are the posters for shows and exhibitions, informative and often attractive.

You are right though, I got heartily sick of that ad and don't even live in London.

[Sheilbh]

I'm always a big fan of the more niche travel destinations showing their wares. There are some lovely adverts by the North Cypriot Tourist Board at the minute

[11B4V]

No one wants to see porkers up on a billboard.

[The Brain]

You have to be quite... emotionally brittle to get offended by the beach body ad. Many ads are retarded, insane, take a huge dump on my core values etc, but that doesn't mean I feel offended by them or commute in a bitter rage. People need to chillax.

Also it's extra retarded to be upset about weight stuff. Weight is equal opprtunity. It doesn't matter if you're beautiful, ugly, short, tall, educated, uneducated, being thin is something you can always choose to be.

[Zanza]

Our silly justice minister is thinking about a law to limit ads "which reduce humans to sexual objects". Whatever that may mean.

[Martinus]

I think we live in fucked up times when not being obese is considered offensive. I mean, I kinda understand garbon on this - he is fat himself - but still it's a bit too much.

[Martinus]

Germans being racist again

No more polygamy & underage wives for immigrants, says German minister

German Justice Minister Heiko Maas has promised to crackdown on the growing problem of multiple, forced, and underage marriages that immigrants from developing countries are bringing with them – but which have often been ignored by authorities.

"No one who comes to us has the right to put their cultural roots or their religious beliefs above our laws," the politician from the center-left SPD party told Bild newspaper on Tuesday.

The state of Bavaria alone has been able to confirm 550 cases of brides aged under 18, and 161 under 16, living among the asylum seekers that have arrived in the recent migrant wave, and similar statistics have been reported throughout Germany, according to Bild.

A government report from 2012 stated that more than half of all Muslim marriages in Germany involved a bride who was under 18.

Spiegel reported the same year that as many as 30 percent of Arab men had multiple wives.

"Everyone must abide by rules and laws, whether they grew up here or are new," said Maas.

Local authorities frequently find ways to indulge and even support such practices. For example, the inheritance of one man is often distributed among his official and unofficial wives.

For other issues, Muslims often appeal to Sharia arbitrators, who bypass official institutions to rule according to Islamic scripture.

In the sphere of marriage, they have been helped by a 2009 law that allows religious marriages to be conducted without accompanying state registration, effectively giving the green light to a whole spectrum of semi-legal practices.

"No multiple marriages will be allowed to be recognized in Germany," insisted Maas.

However, the problem has been complicated by the influx of refugees, with more than 1.1 million arriving just last year. Although the torrent of newcomers has receded, more than 500,000 relatives of Syrian refugees are expected to join their families in Germany this year, which will present its own set of problems.

"I know a few men with many wives," Berlin Imam Abdul Adhim Kamouss admitted to Deutsche Welle. "The question is what does Maas want to do? I can understand it if he says that people who live here in Germany, and grew up here, cannot marry more than one woman – that is the law – but what about the people who come here and already have more than one wife? What are you supposed to do with those marriages?"

An interesting question at the end. What should Germans do about it? I have some ideas but wonder what people here think.