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Switzerland votes to curb EU immigration

Started by Syt, February 09, 2014, 03:06:12 PM

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celedhring

And this in a country with 4 different language/cultural groups  :rolleyes:


Grey Fox

Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:53:38 AM
And this in a country with 4 different language/cultural groups  :rolleyes:

So you understand their point?
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

alfred russel

Quote from: Zanza on February 10, 2014, 04:23:41 PM
No one benefits from excluding Switzerland from the common market, not the Swiss, not the rest of Europeans.

However, I think it would hurt the EU long-term even more if we started to compromise on the four basic freedoms, one of which is at stake here.

How does this impact the four basic freedoms? The Swiss aren't a part of the EU.

You guys have the risk of the UK dropping out right now. Hammering Switzerland because of theoretical restrictions that probably will be quite mild will probably play into a UK exit vote.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

celedhring

#63
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 11, 2014, 08:01:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:53:38 AM
And this in a country with 4 different language/cultural groups  :rolleyes:

So you understand their point?

No, I don't. In the bit where he appeals for the "language", my first question was: which one?

I'm a bit worried with all these xenophobe outbursts throughout Europe. One thinks that they will go away once the recession finally recedes, since people are mostly blaming their problems on "the outsider". But then again, Switzerland has done well during it.

celedhring

Quote from: alfred russel on February 11, 2014, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 10, 2014, 04:23:41 PM
No one benefits from excluding Switzerland from the common market, not the Swiss, not the rest of Europeans.

However, I think it would hurt the EU long-term even more if we started to compromise on the four basic freedoms, one of which is at stake here.

How does this impact the four basic freedoms? The Swiss aren't a part of the EU.

You guys have the risk of the UK dropping out right now. Hammering Switzerland because of theoretical restrictions that probably will be quite mild will probably play into a UK exit vote.

I don't think the UK would never leave the EU, if leaving the EU meant the loss of all 4 freedoms (as in, losing the free market area). Keeping it "all or nothing" is best for the EU, in my opinion.

Grey Fox

Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 08:07:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 11, 2014, 08:01:58 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 11, 2014, 07:53:38 AM
And this in a country with 4 different language/cultural groups  :rolleyes:

So you understand their point?

No, I don't. In the bit where he appeals for the "language", my first question was: which one?

I'm a bit worried with all these xenophobe outbursts throughout Europe. One thinks that they will go away once the recession finally recedes, since people are mostly blaming their problems on "the outsider". But then again, Switzerland has done well during it.

They already have diversity, in the form of their 4 cultural group.


It's because Arabs & Eastern European immigrants are assholes.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Iormlund

It's hilarious to read that dude in EUOT bitch at Italians stealing jobs in Ticino, an Italian-speaking canton within spitting distance. Especially when unemployment rate is something like 3-4%.

We have something like 5-6 million immigrants from all over the place and about the same number of folks without jobs. The Swiss in our position would be laying down the gas pipes.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: alfred russel on February 11, 2014, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 10, 2014, 04:23:41 PM
No one benefits from excluding Switzerland from the common market, not the Swiss, not the rest of Europeans.

However, I think it would hurt the EU long-term even more if we started to compromise on the four basic freedoms, one of which is at stake here.

How does this impact the four basic freedoms? The Swiss aren't a part of the EU.

You guys have the risk of the UK dropping out right now. Hammering Switzerland because of theoretical restrictions that probably will be quite mild will probably play into a UK exit vote.

The UK dropping out would be actually seen as a positive for many people, not just wackos. The UK is not exactly a core member, it has plenty of opt-outs. It might not be as mild for the UK though.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Iormlund on February 11, 2014, 08:13:00 AM
It's hilarious to read that dude in EUOT bitch at Italians stealing jobs in Ticino, an Italian-speaking canton within spitting distance. Especially when unemployment rate is something like 3-4%.

We have something like 5-6 million immigrants from all over the place and about the same number of folks without jobs. The Swiss in our position would be laying down the gas pipes.

Well, the Ticino canto was even in more in favour of the proposal than Alemannic cantons. Is that something new or is it a pattern like the Romand/Alemannic opposition?

The Larch

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 11, 2014, 08:15:23 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 11, 2014, 08:13:00 AM
It's hilarious to read that dude in EUOT bitch at Italians stealing jobs in Ticino, an Italian-speaking canton within spitting distance. Especially when unemployment rate is something like 3-4%.

We have something like 5-6 million immigrants from all over the place and about the same number of folks without jobs. The Swiss in our position would be laying down the gas pipes.

Well, the Ticino canto was even in more in favour of the proposal than Alemannic cantons. Is that something new or is it a pattern like the Romand/Alemannic opposition?

According to friends of mine, Ticino is the Lega Nord's wet dream.

Iormlund

Quote from: alfred russel on February 11, 2014, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 10, 2014, 04:23:41 PM
No one benefits from excluding Switzerland from the common market, not the Swiss, not the rest of Europeans.

However, I think it would hurt the EU long-term even more if we started to compromise on the four basic freedoms, one of which is at stake here.

How does this impact the four basic freedoms? The Swiss aren't a part of the EU.

You guys have the risk of the UK dropping out right now. Hammering Switzerland because of theoretical restrictions that probably will be quite mild will probably play into a UK exit vote.

Switzerland is party to Schengen, and thus the four freedoms.

As for the UK, the worst thing we can do about that is give concessions to the Swiss. Once you've opened Pandora's Box there's no way to close it again.

alfred russel

Quote from: Iormlund on February 11, 2014, 08:19:04 AM

Switzerland is party to Schengen, and thus the four freedoms.

As for the UK, the worst thing we can do about that is give concessions to the Swiss. Once you've opened Pandora's Box there's no way to close it again.

The Swiss only agreed to join the Schengen area when there was the risk of them losing other bilateral treaties with the EU and I would guess they are taking more immigrants on a per capita basis than any non microstate country. I can't imagine the restrictions will be so severe if this only passed with 50.3% of the vote.

If the EU wants to take a really hard line, that is only going to play into the perception that it is a borg like entity bent on assimilating the various nationalities of europe into an undifferentiated euro-mass, regardless of what the people want. The approach of holding an economic knife to country's throats to keep them in line is bound to backfire--voters are not necessarily rational actors.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

garbon

But AR you seem to be arguing then for a paper tiger version of the EU.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Iormlund

Meh. The truth is the guys at Brussels can barely tie their shoelaces together, much less agree to oppress anyone. Eurosceptics are usually nothing more than modern Don Quijotes, tilting at the EU windmills. If one is stupid enough to believe the EU is anything else than a series of treaties between states, nothing will convince him otherwise.

alfred russel

Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2014, 08:42:33 AM
But AR you seem to be arguing then for a paper tiger version of the EU.

Not really. Cutting Switzerland off from the common market could seriously harm the country. Why do that when by the narrowest of margins all Swiss voters have done is said they want some limit, in 3 years? With business and the government aligned in not wanting any limits, it seems that any limit will be very minor.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014