Game of Thrones begins....

[The Minsky Moment]

I agree with LaCroix.  There are limits to teleplay.  Characters and scenarios cannot be multiplied without end as in the books (in fact the books are overkill themselves).  The show is doing what the books should have - keep the focus on the Starks to the extent possible while keeping the essentials of the other plot lines.  So makes sense Sansa was in.  Whether it was adroitly handled is another ?

[viper37]

it's just some of the criticisms are so focused on comparisons between the show and the book that i think it gets lost that they're two completely separate, distinct forms of entertainment

lots of people don't get that.  I realized that way back, when we discussed LoTR

[crazy canuck]

Ok, so why write her into this season at all then.  Isnt that the point.  It served no purpose.

she's a major stark kid that's not becoming a tree. you can't really cut her out - that ain't kosher. jeyne poole wouldn't have worked, imo. as was mentioned at some point in this thread, it's a weak/kinda unrealistic plot in the books. but, this would be worse than the books because we have actual visuals.

then there's the logistics of paying/dealing with another actress in an already huge cast. they already brought lancel back from the dead, introduced a ton of meereen people and an entire dukedom, etc. and, theon saving sansa is a better and more intimate plot than theon saving some random chick he probably took two glances at back in the day.

there's a lot of reasons why they included this plot, and the S5 sansa plot is by far not the worst thing this show has delivered. complaints about it remind me of the barristan death complaints: "but the books didn't do that!"

In relation to your first point, I agree Sansa is a major character.  That is why they should not have written her into the role performed by minor character to engage a minor part of the plot line.  This is where the weakness of the writers for the show is exposed.  This is the first time they had no material from the books to guide them.  They had three choices.  Leave Sansa out of this season to see what happens to her in the books; create their own version of the Sansa story; or combine her with a minor character so that they didn't have to be put to the effort of option 2.  Given the poor result they should have gone with option 1.  Nobody would have minded.  This season was about the Red Keep, Dorne and the North with a side story concerning Arya.  There was no need to include Sansa in any of that.   The only thing that needed to be done was push Theon's story along and they didn't need to involve Sansa for that.  Although it is ironic that Fake Arya always wanted to be Sansa  .

In relation to your second point. Yeah.  I already said that was the likely reason the writers did this.  But instead of being a major part of the season it could have been cut back significantly.  It was really only necessary to bring Theon's story along.

The complaint about the Barristan's death was not that it didn't happen in the books.  The complaint was that it was poorly written and meaningless. 

[LaCroix]

sansa has always had a minor plot in the part, according to your definition. lots of major characters have had minor roles in the plot in both show and book. you're right that red keep, north, and dorne were the major westeros plots this season. placing sansa in the north added to that plotline. you disagree with that, i get that. that doesn't make it an objectively wrong decision.

[crazy canuck]

Sansa has a minor role?  My whole argument is the writers undermined her role.

[LaCroix]

Sansa has a minor role?  My whole argument is the writers undermined her role.

she did as much this season as she's done in other seasons. her whole thing is being a pawn that starts to emerge into something more. in the books and show, she's yet to emerge. there are glimpses, in the book and now the show, that this is about to change.

[Josephus]

I break this debate to bring you...an interview with Cersei's better half.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/18/game-thrones-lena-headey-nude-double-van-cleave

[crazy canuck]

Sansa has a minor role?  My whole argument is the writers undermined her role.

she did as much this season as she's done in other seasons. her whole thing is being a pawn that starts to emerge into something more. in the books and show, she's yet to emerge. there are glimpses, in the book and now the show, that this is about to change.

Now I understand your position.  It ignores that even in the show Sansa's character had matured and developed past the point of being a pawn. One needs to ignore that character development which was clear in both the show and the books to justify putting her into the position of fake Arya this season.

[Berkut]

My complaint with how they handled Sansa this season has absolutely nothing to do with the books. If I had never read the books, and only cared about the show in its own right, my complaint would be completely unchanged.

[crazy canuck]

My complaint with how they handled Sansa this season has absolutely nothing to do with the books. If I had never read the books, and only cared about the show in its own right, my complaint would be completely unchanged.

Agreed.  The only reason I made reference to the books is because Lacroix stated that she was also a pawn in the books at this point.

[Grey Fox]

There is also the book induced presumption that Sansa, because she is a Stark, is a major character.

[Eddie Teach]

That's not unique to the book. Remember all those reaction videos to Ned's death and the Red Wedding?

[crazy canuck]

There is also the book induced presumption that Sansa, because she is a Stark, is a major character.

If she is a major character in the book and a major character in the show the rational conclusion is that she is a major character.

[Grey Fox]

Unless premise #2 is wrong.

[crazy canuck]

Unless premise #2 is wrong.

Sure, but if you count the amount of screen time she gets I am not sure why it would be