Game of Thrones begins....

[Martinus]

OK, I am kind of confused by what they are doing with Theon, and who that guy is - is the guy who "rescued" him supposed to be the Bastard? Why would he kill all his own men?

Because that's how he rolls. [spoiler]He is a psychopath who enjoys games like this and wants to mind-fuck Theon completely, Stockholm-syndrome style.[/spoiler]

[Berkut]

OK, I am kind of confused by what they are doing with Theon, and who that guy is - is the guy who "rescued" him supposed to be the Bastard? Why would he kill all his own men?

Because that's how he rolls. [spoiler]He is a psychopath who enjoys games like this and wants to mind-fuck Theon completely, Stockholm-syndrome style.[/spoiler]

That is stupid. You can't be a lord if you go around killing several of your own men just for giggles. You won't have any men rather quickly.

[Martinus]

OK, I am kind of confused by what they are doing with Theon, and who that guy is - is the guy who "rescued" him supposed to be the Bastard? Why would he kill all his own men?

Because that's how he rolls. [spoiler]He is a psychopath who enjoys games like this and wants to mind-fuck Theon completely, Stockholm-syndrome style.[/spoiler]

That is stupid. You can't be a lord if you go around killing several of your own men just for giggles. You won't have any men rather quickly.

He is not a lord. He is a bastard and a psychopath and his "men" are psychopaths like him, not vassals in the feudal sense. He is known to rape, hunt, kill and flay (not necessarily in that order) women for sport, and murdered his own brother.

He had those men torture Theon, to appear as a saviour, because he wants to completely mind-fuck him. And in this situation, there is no way for his other men to find out he killed these four, so he is not risking some sort of morale breakdown.

[Neil]

By the way, I have a question to Team Stannish here - now, I always thought him to be repugnant in the books, but he seems somehow even more despicable in his show portrayal - essentially a psychopath. Do you agree or do you still support the show version and find the character likeable?

Moreso than Renly.  All fags must hang.  Or failing that, be killed by shadow-demon assassins.

[Berkut]

OK, I am kind of confused by what they are doing with Theon, and who that guy is - is the guy who "rescued" him supposed to be the Bastard? Why would he kill all his own men?

Because that's how he rolls. [spoiler]He is a psychopath who enjoys games like this and wants to mind-fuck Theon completely, Stockholm-syndrome style.[/spoiler]

That is stupid. You can't be a lord if you go around killing several of your own men just for giggles. You won't have any men rather quickly.

He is not a lord. He is a bastard and a psychopath and his "men" are psychopaths like him, not vassals in the feudal sense. He is known to rape, hunt, kill and flay (not necessarily in that order) women for sport, and murdered his own brother.

He had those men torture Theon, to appear as a saviour, because he wants to completely mind-fuck him. And in this situation, there is no way for his other men to find out he killed these four, so he is not risking some sort of morale breakdown.

He is a lord to the extent that he has men who follow him and he relies on their loyalty for his own power.

And it doesn't matter if his other men cannot find out (and of course they certainly can - it's not like Bolton could be sure he would be able to kill all four of his own men without any escaping), they are going to I don't know, wonder where their four other buddies disappeared to?

The fact that he is a psycopath who surrounds himself with others of like psychology is fine - such is reflected in the books. But that doesn't mean that they will just follow him no matter what he does TO THEM. Rape, kill, flay others? Sure.

Martin got this - he understood the means by which men control other men. Hell, one can argue that the basic concept of loyalty to a "lord" and the power it conveys is one of the very foundations of the entire series. What is power? is a theme that pervades the entire series. Power is perception, it is based on what those who follow you believe. They may follow for a variety of reasons - fear, money, honor, duty, love.

But nobody follows someone who they think is just going to murder them on a whim, especially one who has no power otherwise.

I am honestly surprised Martin didn't object to this change in the story. It simply makes no sense. If the Bastard was the kind of man who would do something like this, he would never have any followers to begin with. Certainly Theon is not so extra special that he warrants Bolton setting up such an elaborate ruse and then actually murdering his own men just to mess with some captives head.

[Grey Fox]

We are assuming that they are his own men.

[Martinus]

Berkut, I am really not interested in discussing this - you obviously have one opinion, I have another, and there is no point in rehashing this further.

One point though, for the record: so far there has been no change of story. The part of Theon's storyline that is now played out on season 3 is not in the books (and it is not inconsistent with the scant information about it that we know from the books, when they pick up Theon's storyline at a later time).

[Martinus]

We are assuming that they are his own men.

There is that, too. There has been a change to the storyline, indeed, in that Ramsey was not in Winterfell when Theon was captured (at least as far as we know) so the people torturing him may be just a bunch of cruel Northerners of any allegiance (including, Roose Bolton's men).

Edit: They could have also been a bunch of men he hired for this specific task (i.e. torturing Theon), intending to murder them from the very beginning.

In short, we don't know and going on about how this is shoddy plot without knowing more makes no sense.

[Neil]

Even in the books, Ramsay is almost cartoonish in his villainy.  It makes one wonder how he got away with his behavior for so long, given how much less subtle he is than his father.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Hah, that's what you get for throwing a kid out of a window.

[viper37]

Berkut, I am really not interested in discussing this - you obviously have one opinion, I have another, and there is no point in rehashing this further.

Languish is dying. 

[Berkut]

We are assuming that they are his own men.

So maybe they are some other men who specifically like to torture people in exactly the same manner the Bastard does?

I suppose that is possible.

Maybe there will be some explanation forthcoming that makes this look like more than just bad writing. I hope so. Right now it just looks like a poor attempt to make the Bastard look REALLY REALLY REALLY EVIL in a manner that makes little sense.

[Martinus]

Hah, that's what you get for throwing a kid out of a window.

No, that's what you get for preventing a gang rape.

[Grey Fox]

We are assuming that they are his own men.

So maybe they are some other men who specifically like to torture people in exactly the same manner the Bastard does?

I suppose that is possible.

Maybe there will be some explanation forthcoming that makes this look like more than just bad writing. I hope so. Right now it just looks like a poor attempt to make the Bastard look REALLY REALLY REALLY EVIL in a manner that makes little sense.

Speculation out of the fact that you read the books.

but you are very right, if they were his men & he's Bolton, this is very stupid.

[Queequeg]

I like that they made [spoiler]Ramsay Bolton[/spoiler] hot. This is going to elicit a collective what-the-fuck later on. 

How have you not watched Misfits?