World Cup 2026

[HVC]

Question though, Dguller, are you a regular football watched? Based on your comments in this thread im lead to believe not, but I may be wrong.

[DGuller]

From what I read everyone thought the reversal was stupid. Once the truth came out everyone thought it was stupid and corrupt. So :shrug

I'm talking about the conversation from the beginning.  The red card happened on Wednesday, reversal came on Sunday.  "Suspension" itself smelled very suspect even before Trump's involvement became known, I myself wrote that at the time.

My point is, whether the opinion about the red card was well-informed or ill-informed, it shouldn't be affected by subsequent events.  The facts didn't change since Wednesday.  Clearly it has been affected rather profoundly.

[DGuller]

Question though, Dguller, are you a regular football watched? Based on your comments in this thread im lead to believe not, but I may be wrong.

I'm not a regular football watcher now, I only watch it if I'm in the company of soccer watchers, but I have been watching regularly earlier in my life.  Soccer was the only sport of note in the USSR, even if it was rather poor at playing it in international events.

[crazy canuck]

Reading the Reddit before and after the red card suspension is so revealing.  Rightly or wrongly, before the Trump intervention, the hefty majority opinion was that the red card was a wrong outcome.  It wasn't a unanimous conclusion, but it was a majority conclusion.  There was an expectation that a review of the red card could result in it being rescinded.  There was then a sense of dismay when everyone found out that unlike in other leagues, there was no mechanism to rescind a red card in FIFA World Cup.

Now that Trump inserted himself, the overwhelming view is that the red card was fully deserved.  The dynamic sadden me, to be honest.  Both things can be true:  red card should not have been given, and it should not have been "suspended" due to Trump intervention.  Whatever the facts are, the fact that opinions, right or mistaken, have shifted so dramatically because of events unrelated to the foul itself, is disheartening.

That speaks more to where you get your information

[HVC]

From what I read everyone thought the reversal was stupid. Once the truth came out everyone thought it was stupid and corrupt. So :shrug

I'm talking about the conversation from the beginning.  The red card happened on Wednesday, reversal came on Sunday.  "Suspension" itself smelled very suspect even before Trump's involvement became known, I myself wrote that at the time.

My point is, whether the opinion about the red card was well-informed or ill-informed, it shouldn't be affected by subsequent events.  The facts didn't change since Wednesday.  Clearly it has been affected rather profoundly.

But thats the thing, people thought the reversal was stupid because they thought card was valid. A stupid decision can be reached legitimately, although unlikely in the world of fifa .

Also depends what reddit sources you're reading. Its not exactly the most unbiased of sources

[HVC]

For example, ronaldos suspended red card. People can rightly call that a stupid decision. Other side can make arguments that it was before the tournament. Each side can have valid arguments.  But that different from a card in the tournament and a suspended sentence bought or demanded by an oligarch.

*edit* and I get thats not your main argument, you're arguing about a change of view about the very nature of the call (which I didn't see beyond American pundits) but it goes a long way to explaining a hardened view you describe (which again i did not see, just offering a plausible explaination)

[Jacob]

That speaks more to where you get your information

Presumably dguller's reddit soccer feed focuses on the USMNT and American soccer fans. It would make sense that American supporters would almost unanimously find the red card dubious and likely to be rescinded. Similarly, it would make sense that once Trump became involved there'd be a division along partisan lines as to whether political influence should be used to influence sport rules decisions or not.

In the spaces I'm in, there was a clear current of Americans bemoaning the red (which is perfectly normal, most fan bases are good at finding reasons for why the red cards they received were unfair, that's not a uniquely American thing at all), while non-Americans massively leaned towards "yeah that's a red", with variation between "okay it was marginal, but still a reasonable call" to "of course that's a red, you can't put your studs on someone's legs like that".

Similarly, in the spaces I'm in the only ones who are defending Trump's intercession are Americans (or bots posing as Americans).

[DGuller]

But thats the thing, people thought the reversal was stupid because they thought card was valid. A stupid decision can be reached legitimately, although unlikely in the world of fifa .

It's hard to tell.  There wasn't enough time between the suspension being announced and Trump news breaking.  My personal feeling before hearing about Trump was that it was a wrong way to get the right result, and the biggest problem was that there was no right way to get the right result.  Apparently the ref can have a nervous breakdown and red card everyone and everything, and there is no way in the rule book to clean up the mess.

Also depends what reddit sources you're reading. Its not exactly the most unbiased of sources

I was reading World Cup reddit, as well as a referee reddit.  I also visited a referee blog, as well as a referee forum, where other referees evaluate the performance of the referee team for every match.

[crazy canuck]

All of the non-American sources I read said it was a clear red card foul. And if that were to happen in a European league, the player would likely be banned for some period of time for such a dangerous foul.

I'm not sure what universe you inhabit but it's very different from mine.

[Zoupa]

What's the argument for it not being a red card? I dont get it. I've re-watched the play several times. Its a dangerous challenge. Balogun didn't even contest it.

[HVC]

Even the might of americas corruption could get corrupt FIFA to say the call was wrong, just that the punishment is being delayed with probation

[HVC]

What's the argument for it not being a red card? I dont get it. I've re-watched the play several times. Its a dangerous challenge. Balogun didn't even contest it.

Not only did he not contest it he said it was a yellow card... which in footballer speak means he knows it was a red 

[crazy canuck]

What's the argument for it not being a red card? I dont get it. I've re-watched the play several times. Its a dangerous challenge. Balogun didn't even contest it.

No idea, but DGuller gets a lot of things wrong in his post so I'm not really taking it at face value that there is a large number of even Americans that think it was the wrong call.

The other thing that he says in his post is that he learned from what he read that there's no way to appeal a red card. That is also completely false, but it shows the quality of what he was reading.

[DGuller]

What's the argument for it not being a red card? I dont get it. I've re-watched the play several times. Its a dangerous challenge. Balogun didn't even contest it.

Two main arguments for it not being a red card:

1)  It was a collision and/or a foul by the Bosnian player, not a challenge or a tackle.
2)  The VAR protocol was not followed with regard to the use of slow-motion replay.

[HVC]

Dont agree with number one, and Number two in no way invalidate the tackle being worthy of  a red card though.