What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[crazy canuck]

Our mail-in system used to be more controlled (and rare) pre-COVID.  And specifically in this case, is not a "fault" (I don't even think it is a problem) of the American system, but the Californian one...some other states may have similar rules.

Back to the topic, you objected to the characterization of the delay in your voting results being bizarre. I have simply provided context for why from the perspective of an outside viewer it does seem quite bizarre that at least in some places than the United States you have to wait simply because they've made a rule that mail ballots can be posted as late as the election date itself.

Well don't worry. We will lose that ability if the Trump admin has its way.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5917066-supreme-court-mail-in-ballots/

The Supreme Court is set to decide as soon as this week whether states can accept mail-in ballots that arrive after election day in a case that could invalidate the so-called grace period in places like California.

The decision will come after enormous attention was paid across the country to the results in both the California governor's contest and the battle for mayor of Los Angeles, where Republican candidate Spencer Pratt was overtaken by progressive candidate Nithya Raman, drawing outrage from President Trump and others on the right.

In California, the coming Supreme Court decision would likely have no bearing on those races because they are state and local and not federal contests. But it could have consequences for U.S. House races in the fall.

...

Oh, I'm not worried about the technicalities of how voting occurs in the United States. There are bigger problems to worry about with your country of origin.

[The Minsky Moment]

I don't understand the basis on which the Supreme Court can make that decision.

It's a bit late in the day to start expecting the Supreme Court to require a basis for making a decision.  Trump has asked, what more basis is needed?

[The Minsky Moment]

And that is the difference. The United States seems to be a bit of an outlier by allowing ballots by mail to be posted right up until election day. In the UK, Canada and a number of other countries, voting by mail requires the pre-registration of the voter as well as posting the mail ballot in the prescribed time before the election day. That way, the ballots arrive normally before election day and stored securely so that they are counted along with all the other ballots. Usually last.

It likely derives from the rule, common in most state legal systems that the effective day of service of process done by mail is the day of mailing, since that is the most easily verifiable (via postmark).  And that in turn derives from the fact that the mail system has not always been - and still is not - exactly 100 percent reliable for delivery. 

As to federal elections, Congress does have the authority to override state rules: "the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators."  However, here the Constitution is so explicit that "Congress" must act, that even this administration hasn't had the chutzpah to impose it by electoral fiat.  And getting this Congress to agree on electoral law changes in this climate is a big lift.

[crazy canuck]

And that is the difference. The United States seems to be a bit of an outlier by allowing ballots by mail to be posted right up until election day. In the UK, Canada and a number of other countries, voting by mail requires the pre-registration of the voter as well as posting the mail ballot in the prescribed time before the election day. That way, the ballots arrive normally before election day and stored securely so that they are counted along with all the other ballots. Usually last.

It likely derives from the rule, common in most state legal systems that the effective day of service of process done by mail is the day of mailing, since that is the most easily verifiable (via postmark).  And that in turn derives from the fact that the mail system has not always been - and still is not - exactly 100 percent reliable for delivery. 

As to federal elections, Congress does have the authority to override state rules: "the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators."  However, here the Constitution is so explicit that "Congress" must act, that even this administration hasn't had the chutzpah to impose it by electoral fiat.  And getting this Congress to agree on electoral law changes in this climate is a big lift.

But that does not explain why the deadline for posting the ballot is on election day rather than an earlier day.

[Norgy]

When Vance takes over, voting will be a thing of the past, except in Miss Prudish and Best Home-maker awards.

[The Minsky Moment]

But that does not explain why the deadline for posting the ballot is on election day rather than an earlier day.

Because posting the ballot is act of voting and Election Day is the deadline to vote.  Because it increases convenience to the voter.  Because it allows mail-in voters who are on the fence the same time to decide as live voters.

And so what if it takes a few days to complete the count?  What's the big rush?  For Congress, there is nearly a two month gap between Election Day and the start of the new term.

[Valmy]

And this is a Primary. The only thing being decided is how the ballots are printed in November. Plenty of time to get it right.

[crazy canuck]

But that does not explain why the deadline for posting the ballot is on election day rather than an earlier day.

Because posting the ballot is act of voting and Election Day is the deadline to vote.  Because it increases convenience to the voter.  Because it allows mail-in voters who are on the fence the same time to decide as live voters.

And so what if it takes a few days to complete the count?  What's the big rush?  For Congress, there is nearly a two month gap between Election Day and the start of the new term.

On the other hand, so what if somebody has to vote a few days earlier by casting a ballot?  The increase in voter convenience is providing the mail in ballot in the first place, not the date by which the ballot needs to be posted.  Why create a needless delay in counting the vote?

And by your logic, why not just delay the counting of the vote until a couple of days before somebody takes office. 

[The Minsky Moment]

On the other hand, so what if somebody has to vote a few days earlier by casting a ballot?  The increase in voter convenience is providing the mail in ballot in the first place, not the date by which the ballot needs to be posted.  Why create a needless delay in counting the vote?

More time to submit the ballot is also an element of convenience.  And it avoids confusion because now there is only one deadline to remember - Election Day for all votes, no matter how cast, as opposed to different days depending on the method of voting.

There are arguments to be made in favor and arguments against.  In the American federal system, those arguments are resolved by having the people of the respective states decide how they want to do it.   If the people of the state California (or other states) decide that the benefits of being able to mail out election ballots on election day outweigh the concerns of waiting a few extra days to get final results, that's their call to make on state elections and their call to make on federal election unless Congress says otherwise.  That's democracy.

Personally I usually mail in and I like the extra time.  Doesn't bother me in the least that it took a few days to know the second  winner in the primary for the open town council seats.

[crazy canuck]

On the other hand, so what if somebody has to vote a few days earlier by casting a ballot?  The increase in voter convenience is providing the mail in ballot in the first place, not the date by which the ballot needs to be posted.  Why create a needless delay in counting the vote?

More time to submit the ballot is also an element of convenience.  And it avoids confusion because now there is only one deadline to remember - Election Day for all votes, no matter how cast, as opposed to different days depending on the method of voting.

There are arguments to be made in favor and arguments against.  In the American federal system, those arguments are resolved by having the people of the respective states decide how they want to do it.   If the people of the state California (or other states) decide that the benefits of being able to mail out election ballots on election day outweigh the concerns of waiting a few extra days to get final results, that's their call to make on state elections and their call to make on federal election unless Congress says otherwise.  That's democracy.

Personally I usually mail in and I like the extra time.  Doesn't bother me in the least that it took a few days to know the second  winner in the primary for the open town council seats.

No, that's not democracy. That's chaos. If the goal is to create a system, that is understandable and transparent then the goal should be consistency so that people are not confused about what the rules are. You've got chaotic system where rules change as one crosses a state boundary.  That's all good fine if somebody lives their whole life within one state and perhaps that's what the system is based upon.

But we are along past the horse and buggy. People are much more mobile and a system built for a time when people lived their lives in one place is antiquated at best.

[garbon]

On the other hand, so what if somebody has to vote a few days earlier by casting a ballot?  The increase in voter convenience is providing the mail in ballot in the first place, not the date by which the ballot needs to be posted.  Why create a needless delay in counting the vote?

More time to submit the ballot is also an element of convenience.  And it avoids confusion because now there is only one deadline to remember - Election Day for all votes, no matter how cast, as opposed to different days depending on the method of voting.

There are arguments to be made in favor and arguments against.  In the American federal system, those arguments are resolved by having the people of the respective states decide how they want to do it.   If the people of the state California (or other states) decide that the benefits of being able to mail out election ballots on election day outweigh the concerns of waiting a few extra days to get final results, that's their call to make on state elections and their call to make on federal election unless Congress says otherwise.  That's democracy.

Personally I usually mail in and I like the extra time.  Doesn't bother me in the least that it took a few days to know the second  winner in the primary for the open town council seats.

No, that's not democracy. That's chaos. If the goal is to create a system, that is understandable and transparent then the goal should be consistency so that people are not confused about what the rules are. You've got chaotic system where rules change as one crosses a state boundary.  That's all good fine if somebody lives their whole life within one state and perhaps that's what the system is based upon.

But we are along past the horse and buggy. People are much more mobile and a system built for a time when people lived their lives in one place is antiquated at best.

Because when you move somewhere else you expect everything to be the same?

[HVC]

I don't know, if a person can't even be bothered to learn about the voting rules in their area it doesn't bode well for they're ability to cast a well thought out ballot.

[crazy canuck]

On the other hand, so what if somebody has to vote a few days earlier by casting a ballot?  The increase in voter convenience is providing the mail in ballot in the first place, not the date by which the ballot needs to be posted.  Why create a needless delay in counting the vote?

More time to submit the ballot is also an element of convenience.  And it avoids confusion because now there is only one deadline to remember - Election Day for all votes, no matter how cast, as opposed to different days depending on the method of voting.

There are arguments to be made in favor and arguments against.  In the American federal system, those arguments are resolved by having the people of the respective states decide how they want to do it.   If the people of the state California (or other states) decide that the benefits of being able to mail out election ballots on election day outweigh the concerns of waiting a few extra days to get final results, that's their call to make on state elections and their call to make on federal election unless Congress says otherwise.  That's democracy.

Personally I usually mail in and I like the extra time.  Doesn't bother me in the least that it took a few days to know the second  winner in the primary for the open town council seats.

No, that's not democracy. That's chaos. If the goal is to create a system, that is understandable and transparent then the goal should be consistency so that people are not confused about what the rules are. You've got chaotic system where rules change as one crosses a state boundary.  That's all good fine if somebody lives their whole life within one state and perhaps that's what the system is based upon.

But we are along past the horse and buggy. People are much more mobile and a system built for a time when people lived their lives in one place is antiquated at best.

Because when you move somewhere else you expect everything to be the same?

When you move within a country, yeah, I think it's reasonable to assume that something on the federal level should remain the same. 

Just another example of American exceptionalism I guess where you guys think that what you do is normal when it's actually pretty bizarre from the perspective of the way other countries do it.

[garbon]

When you move within a country, yeah, I think it's reasonable to assume that something on the federal level should remain the same. 

Just another example of American exceptionalism I guess where you guys think that what you do is normal when it's actually pretty bizarre from the perspective of the way other countries do it.

It is odd how you are taking the stance that different from what you do must be wrong. Rather closed minded.

[The Minsky Moment]

No, that's not democracy. That's chaos.

I know that Canadians have somewhat more of a reputation for orderliness than Americans, but this is a bit much.  In my town we had a hotly contested election for town council - with 2 seats up, it was very close for who was getting the second seat.  It took a few days for all the mail ballots to come in.  The results are still listed as unofficial.  There is no panic in the streets.  No one is complaining.  As problems go, this one ranks really, really low.