Iran War

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

I really hope I'm being irrational, but I think there's a non-zero chance a B61-11 gets dropped on Isfahan tonight.

[crazy canuck]

Oh god, I hope you are wrong

[Jacob]

Should have clarified I was referring to a low response from media/people in general.  It seems like a much bigger deal to me to have a president openly talking about and threatening to bomb civilian targets.

But that just seems to be where we are now, exhausted and not sure how to deal with this guy.

There's flooding the zone, yes, but I suspect that the hollowing out of the 4th estate and the ownership of media and social companies by Trump aligned oligarchs and/ or by financial managers who are purely managing ROI in their diversified portfolios plays a significant role.

Imagine the media noise and general outrage if a Democratic president did even 1% of the bullshit Trump did. If Biden pulled the same level of insanity Trump is, the media response would be outright apocalyptic.

[crazy canuck]

The Israeli actions in Gaza did a lot to desensitize the world to a nation carrying out war crimes against civilian populations.

And now we have the president of the United States, calling for the eradication of a civilization. We now have a president of the United States openly calling for genocide.

And for sure, there are going to be people out there like Raz who will push back on the use of that word because of their defence of the Israeli actions in Gaza. Not to mention the actions of Israel in southern Lebanon.

[crazy canuck]

Should have clarified I was referring to a low response from media/people in general.  It seems like a much bigger deal to me to have a president openly talking about and threatening to bomb civilian targets.

But that just seems to be where we are now, exhausted and not sure how to deal with this guy.

I very much agree with you there.  If W or Obama said even a quarter of what Lord TACO of Orange has said huge numbers of people would be screaming bloody murder.  I think he has, unfortunately and terrifyingly, shifted the Overton window.  It's really disappointing, even disturbing, that even large, respected news outlets like the New York Times have just sorta gone along with it.

This morning the New York Times has simply reported the fact that Trump has said that a civilization will be "wiped out". There was no analysis of what that means and there was no comment of the fact that this is a war crime.

[Jacob]

I really hope I'm being irrational, but I think there's a non-zero chance a B61-11 gets dropped on Isfahan tonight.

If the US nukes an Iranian population centre over Trump's war of choice, because Iran is refusing to let shipping through the Hormuz, that will put Trump's US as a nation into the same category as Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia.

There may some nuance differences in the ranking, but it'll be the same category.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Imbecilic leftists causing, by any standards, a low civilian casualty war in Gaza a "war crime" every day did indeed do a lot to make the word war crime meaningless. The concept of a war crime was never to make war illegal, it was to make specific bad acts illegal. The use of the concept by the internationalist left to try to criminalize all wars just leads to the entire concept being viewed as bunk.

[Jacob]

Imbecilic leftists causing, by any standards, a low civilian casualty war in Gaza a "war crime" every day did indeed do a lot to make the word war crime meaningless. The concept of a war crime was never to make war illegal, it was to make specific bad acts illegal. The use of the concept by the internationalist left to try to criminalize all wars just leads to the entire concept being viewed as bunk.

The authoritarian right likes to blame the left for the crimes committed by the authoritarian right. It's always been thus. It does not change the responsibility for the crimes.

If you beat your wife because "she made me do it", you're still a wife beater. If you murder someone from a different ethnicity because they "stole your job" or "they got uppity", you're still a racist murderer. And if you commit war crimes, you're still a war criminal even if you think someone applied the term "war crime" imprecisely in that past.

[The Brain]

According to the American right simply owning a nuke is a war crime. Not even killing anyone.

[HisMajestyBOB]

According to the American right simply owning a nuke is a war crime. Not even killing anyone.

Except in America, because of the 2nd amendment.

[Darth Wagtaros]

The lawmakers and the party leaderships know how to deal with him. They lack the will to do so.

They are complicit.

It is profitable.  Very profitable.  A political ecosystem that has evolved to total war does not need to do anything useful or even reasonably competent. 

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

If the US nukes an Iranian population centre over Trump's war of choice, because Iran is refusing to let shipping through the Hormuz, that will put Trump's US as a nation into the same category as Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia.

There may some nuance differences in the ranking, but it'll be the same category.

The B61 is reportedly a dial-a-yield weapon, and the nuclear facility is far enough outside the city of Isfahan that a 10kt ground burst (reportedly the lowest setting on the weapon) would keep the direct effects well away from the city, and only really hit a few of the villages near the facility.  The Mod 11 is the ground penetrator, which Nukemap can't model, so the direct effects may be more limited even at a higher yield setting.  I'm worried that this will be used to justify employing the Mod 11 against the underground facility, and that the collateral damage will be considered acceptable by the regime.

[Valmy]

It's the first time I see a head of state proudly announcing he's about to commit war crimes. I don't think even Putin does that.

He knows what Americans want to hear. Russians might be less evil and bloodthirsty.

[Valmy]

I very much agree with you there.  If W or Obama said even a quarter of what Lord TACO of Orange has said huge numbers of people would be screaming bloody murder.  I think he has, unfortunately and terrifyingly, shifted the Overton window.  It's really disappointing, even disturbing, that even large, respected news outlets like the New York Times have just sorta gone along with it.

They did this during the first term as well. Trump would say something completely insane and horrifying and the media would rush to explain how it is great actually. At the time it was weird and frustrating. Now you just have to accept that if you dare suggest that maybe we should have universal health care you will be denounced as an unrealistic dangerous freak, but if you want concentration camps and mass murder the media will nod sagely and agree.

[crazy canuck]

Imbecilic leftists causing, by any standards, a low civilian casualty war in Gaza a "war crime" every day did indeed do a lot to make the word war crime meaningless. The concept of a war crime was never to make war illegal, it was to make specific bad acts illegal. The use of the concept by the internationalist left to try to criminalize all wars just leads to the entire concept being viewed as bunk.

As I said, people like Raz