Bobby Kennedy Junior

[Norgy]

Let's say he is not... quite what Europe's leftists like me expected.

Was RFK Junior ever on a good path, as an environmental lawyer, or has he always been a milk-drinking sociopath?

The Kennedy legacy is, obviously, powerful. Lots of strange people seem to claim John junior is alive and is Trump's co-pilot. And oddity, really.

But let me ask you Americans, was RFK Junior sort of doomed from the off? His father's legacy was short-lived, but it seems to me, RFK 2.0. had every chance of stepping behind Ted and become a liberal icon, but rather snorted charlie off toilet seats and then at a late stage, remembered, oh, shit I need to leave a mark too.

I would probably, if I were American, have voted for a younger RFK or the philandering Ted up to the noughthies.
So where did it all go wrong?

[Valmy]

Yeah so...while I was aware of his environmental past you have to understand the weird granola -> fascist pipeline we have in the US. Like we used to have cranks and weirdos on the left who talked about natural whatever and crystal meditation blah blah and rejected modern science and medicine and all that. And a large number of those people went crazy far right during the COVID epidemic. Now is RFK Jr one of those sorts of people? I don't know but he sort of became their guy.

They genuinely believe that all health problems are due to modernity and if we just attuned to nature and sat in saunas and exercised we would all be super healthy. Obviously very reactionary nonsense, but given all the pollution and shenanigans pharma and health insurance companies get up to you can understand the appeal.

The idea he was going to work for the environment was obviously a lie once he signed on with Trump.

As for if he had the potential to be some liberal leftwing icon, I have to admit I had never heard of him prior to his rightward turn and how he suddenly became the darling of every insane person I knew during COVID. So I don't know.

[frunk]

Personally I'm not a fan of political dynasties, so the fact that he's a Kennedy actually works against him.  That he's also nuts just reinforces my distaste.

Same as Valmy he wasn't really on my radar until his crazy became obvious.

[Norgy]

They genuinely believe that all health problems are due to modernity and if we just attuned to nature and sat in saunas and exercised we would all be super healthy. Obviously very reactionary nonsense, but given all the pollution and shenanigans pharma and health insurance companies get up to you can understand the appeal.

Sad to say, we did that before you. Most offshoots of the Rudolf Steiner schools believe measles and death are good for you.
Taking a pill for something is like suicide for your soul etc.

While covid somewhat culled the herd in Europe (and killed a lot of old people just trying not to die), the MAHA trend has surprisingly low traction here.
A quick search shows that RFK jr. has sought the Democratic party's nomination quite a few times. The anti-vaccine crowd is... probably a greater threat to human existence than heart disease and smoking are. Didn't we have some of those "listen to your body" types here?

All know Trump's administration will hardly open new national parks or say, hey, why don't we pay Brazil's socialist president to stop chopping down trees in the Amazonas, just for fun?

I will give Bobby this, he said what Trump eats is "poison".

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

And a large number of those people went crazy far right during the COVID epidemic.

It started before that.  The paleo/raw food movement gained a lot of traction in the young, "manly" right with shit like the Caveman Diet.  It tied pretty closely to the right's glorification of (distorted views of) ancient Greece and Rome.  Another instance of the horseshoe, where two seemingly opposed groups come to roughly the same point from opposite directions.

I'm not sure how long this will last.  There are some in the MAGAt camp who stand to make a lot of money, directly or indirectly, off the medicines that RFK, Jr. Dr. Oz, and their ilk are demonizing and defunding.  At some point it will come down to the money or the cult, and I'm not sure which one is stronger at the moment.

[Grey Fox]

The Cult will kill a lot of children while also costing them so much potential money. I don't know how the Cult can survive that.

[The Minsky Moment]

The New Agey MAGA stuff is mostly orthogonal to US political divisions.  Kennedy could have endorsed either side; he went Trump b/c Trump offered him a cabinet slot and Harris wouldn't.  Those ideas have an anti-establishment vibe so tended left in the 60s-70s but is more receptive to the right now.

[The Brain]

He did coke from toilet seats. This made him the darling of any US administration.

[crazy canuck]

And a large number of those people went crazy far right during the COVID epidemic.

It started before that.  The paleo/raw food movement gained a lot of traction in the young, "manly" right with shit like the Caveman Diet.  It tied pretty closely to the right's glorification of (distorted views of) ancient Greece and Rome.  Another instance of the horseshoe, where two seemingly opposed groups come to roughly the same point from opposite directions.

I'm not sure how long this will last.  There are some in the MAGAt camp who stand to make a lot of money, directly or indirectly, off the medicines that RFK, Jr. Dr. Oz, and their ilk are demonizing and defunding.  At some point it will come down to the money or the cult, and I'm not sure which one is stronger at the moment.

There is lot of money to be made defunding science and vaccines by promoting other products to replace them, which explains the MAHA movement.  And btw is largely how Oz made his money.

[Tonitrus]

So where did it all go wrong?

I kinda wonder what might have been different in US politics if JFK Jr wasn't into flying.

[Darth Wagtaros]

And a large number of those people went crazy far right during the COVID epidemic.

It started before that.  The paleo/raw food movement gained a lot of traction in the young, "manly" right with shit like the Caveman Diet.  It tied pretty closely to the right's glorification of (distorted views of) ancient Greece and Rome.  Another instance of the horseshoe, where two seemingly opposed groups come to roughly the same point from opposite directions.

I'm not sure how long this will last.  There are some in the MAGAt camp who stand to make a lot of money, directly or indirectly, off the medicines that RFK, Jr. Dr. Oz, and their ilk are demonizing and defunding.  At some point it will come down to the money or the cult, and I'm not sure which one is stronger at the moment.

There is lot of money to be made defunding science and vaccines by promoting other products to replace them, which explains the MAHA movement.  And btw is largely how Oz made his money.

Especially if the product is tap water and some food coloring or some mostly non-poisonous food like paste.  SOmething that costs pennies to get to the shelves but can be sold for a premium.

[HVC]

So where did it all go wrong?

I kinda wonder what might have been different in US politics if JFK Jr wasn't into flying.

You'd have a prettier coked up Kennedy?

[Legbiter]

Anti-vaccination, whole food, raw milk stuff codes extremely progressive and left-wing here. These people wear home-knitted wool sweaters like this.



They are also big into gardening and vegetable growing for home-use. My wife maps very well onto this minus the positive thoughts on raw milk and measles.

[HVC]

You're about a decade and a half behind us. Give it time. . The right has an uncanny way of co-opting loony left stuff and somehow making it worse.

[crazy canuck]

Anti-vaccination, whole food, raw milk stuff codes extremely progressive and left-wing here. These people wear home-knitted wool sweaters like this.



They are also big into gardening and vegetable growing for home-use. My wife maps very well onto this minus the positive thoughts on raw milk and measles.

I am not sure what you are complaining about there