What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Razgovory]

The vast majority of black voters went against Trump.

The other question is whether we need an explanation other than that poor white voters, despite relying on the very government programs that the GOP are gutting, are so gullible that they will vote for the party that screws them and potentially ruins their family's economic future, just to show off their contempt for urban liberals and the horrifying prospect that somewhere in the nation, a trans woman is competing in a high school women's track meet.

I think the answer to your question is in your question.  You use the word "gullible".  Maybe they vote against you because you don't respect them, that you hold them in contempt.

Wow Raz you completely missed the point.  My question was entirely rhetorical - I was rejecting that entire line of reasoning.  My point is that *your* argument - which presumes that white heartland voters are voting for programs harmful to their interest simply as a means for expressing rejection of imagined coastal elites - entails precisely the assumption of gullibility you understandably find offensive.  I find it offensive as well, but I DONT AGREE with that entire narrative.

Is it really to vote against their own interest to vote against the people that hold them in contempt?  Honestly I don't think they think of it as voting against their own interests, in the past 40 years people like you have gotten richer and people like them have not.

[DGuller]

Good luck to NYC.

Well we dodged Cuomo and Adams will be out, so at least corruption will be down.

There are worse things than corruption.  Such as utter incompetence at governing that discredits everyone in the same ZIP code as you politically.

[Valmy]

There are worse things than corruption.  Such as utter incompetence at governing that discredits everyone in the same ZIP code as you politically.

I mean we are going to have to elect young and inexperienced people at some point. Eventually we run out of 80 year olds.

[viper37]

Yi is going to be happy.

NATO countries will reach their 5% military spending target, under Trump's impulse.  Dead leader has prevailed.

All while not spending much more on their military than they already had planned to commit to defense the year before. 

When every NATO country reaches 2% I will say you promised this 10 years ago.

If we use the same definition as the US, we are already at 2%...

[Razgovory]

Good luck to NYC.

Well we dodged Cuomo and Adams will be out, so at least corruption will be down.

There are worse things than corruption.  Such as utter incompetence at governing that discredits everyone in the same ZIP code as you politically.

In this case I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[HVC]

The vast majority of black voters went against Trump.

The other question is whether we need an explanation other than that poor white voters, despite relying on the very government programs that the GOP are gutting, are so gullible that they will vote for the party that screws them and potentially ruins their family's economic future, just to show off their contempt for urban liberals and the horrifying prospect that somewhere in the nation, a trans woman is competing in a high school women's track meet.

I think the answer to your question is in your question.  You use the word "gullible".  Maybe they vote against you because you don't respect them, that you hold them in contempt.

Wow Raz you completely missed the point.  My question was entirely rhetorical - I was rejecting that entire line of reasoning.  My point is that *your* argument - which presumes that white heartland voters are voting for programs harmful to their interest simply as a means for expressing rejection of imagined coastal elites - entails precisely the assumption of gullibility you understandably find offensive.  I find it offensive as well, but I DONT AGREE with that entire narrative.

Is it really to vote against their own interest to vote against the people that hold them in contempt?  Honestly I don't think they think of it as voting against their own interests, in the past 40 years people like you have gotten richer and people like them have not.

You seem to be under the misguided assumption that republicans don't hold poor white people in contempt too. I mean it's not the dems cutting all the safety nets for the poor.

[Valmy]

Is it really to vote against their own interest to vote against the people that hold them in contempt?  Honestly I don't think they think of it as voting against their own interests, in the past 40 years people like you have gotten richer and people like them have not.

Yeah and what happened 40 years ago? Reagan and neoliberalism took hold.

Which is why it needs to be moved on from, or at least heavily modified to take into account the results it created. Trump and the right wing are doing this with their nationalist protectionist ideas. The Democrats need to move on in a different way.

[Valmy]

You seem to be under the misguided assumption that republicans don't hold poor white people in contempt too. I mean it's not the dems cutting all the safety nets for the poor.

I think Raz knows this. He is talking about vibes. And the fact that Trump does present some new radical ideas that would have outraged Republicans just a decade ago.

The Democratic strongholds are mostly urban, rural and urban areas have a traditional rivalry. So that comes into play here.

[Valmy]

In this case I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Ok so what are you actually in favor of Raz? You clearly hate Trump. But you also seem to despise the mainstream consensus of the past 40 or so years. But here you lash out at the leftwing challenge to it.

So you hate the mainstream consensus and how it created all this wealth inequality. You hate the nationalist right wing challenge to it. You seem to hate the leftwing challenge to it.

So...so...what is it that you are for exactly?

[HVC]

You seem to be under the misguided assumption that republicans don't hold poor white people in contempt too. I mean it's not the dems cutting all the safety nets for the poor.

I think Raz knows this. He is talking about vibes. And the fact that Trump does present some new radical ideas that would have outraged Republicans just a decade ago.

The Democratic strongholds are mostly urban, rural and urban areas have a traditional rivalry. So that comes into play here.

You say vibes, I say lies

[DGuller]

There are worse things than corruption.  Such as utter incompetence at governing that discredits everyone in the same ZIP code as you politically.

I mean we are going to have to elect young and inexperienced people at some point. Eventually we run out of 80 year olds.

That is the conundrum, isn't it?  One reason why the elderly Democrats have held on to power is not because of some conspiracy, but because they were a better option than the young ones.

[Valmy]

That is the conundrum, isn't it?  One reason why the elderly Democrats have held on to power is not because of some conspiracy, but because they were a better option than the young ones.

Maybe. But it was inevitable.

Besides they will learn. The young scary radicals of today become the safe veteran leaders of tomorrow.

[DGuller]

Good luck to NYC.

Well we dodged Cuomo and Adams will be out, so at least corruption will be down.

There are worse things than corruption.  Such as utter incompetence at governing that discredits everyone in the same ZIP code as you politically.

In this case I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

If all the Democrats are in that ZIP code, I think it's a very bad thing.  I'm a firm believer that glass doors in the pharmacies gave Trump a lot of votes, because they were a regular reminder of the failure of Democratic governance.  The voters may not always differentiate between different kinds of Democrats when they stare at daily reminders of failures.

[HVC]

That is to say, if both parties have contempt for you, but one is actively hurting you and the other is just kind of ignoring you and you vote for the one that hurts you it's not being gullible, it's being dumb. But I've been calling the electorate idiots for a long time (got into it with sheilbh once lol). And that not to say I'm not dumb, far from it.

So lie better dems, god dammit. It's so frustrating. If you're not gonna be good guys, at least be better at the game. Your shittyness is infinitely preferable to the conservative shittyness.

[Valmy]

If all the Democrats are in that ZIP code, I think it's a very bad thing.  I'm a firm believer that glass doors in the pharmacies gave Trump a lot of votes, because they were a regular reminder of the failure of Democratic governance.  The voters may not always differentiate between different kinds of Democrats when they stare at daily reminders of failures.

So does electing one of those failed Democratic governors, like Cuomo, counter that in some way?