Grand unified books thread

[Savonarola]

I've read Portrait, but likewise, I wasn't a massive fan. And one o the big shifts reading Ulysses approaching 40 v as an undergraduate is how much more insufferable I find Stephen

 

Yeah, I first read Ulysses when I was about Stephen's age and the second time when I was about Mr. Bloom's; I was surprised at how much my perspective on the characters had changed.

[Duque de Bragança]

Unpractical for public transportation reading. Not just for Joyce, naturally. 

Just move to New York City.  No one would be alarmed, or even surprised, by a person mumbling about comodius vicus, the prankquaen, quarks, bisexcycles or peasporter on the subway. 

bisexcycles ? Can't be worse than e-scooter riding dazzling tracksuit suburbanites clogging the way in subway cars. 
Hollywood and Parisian métro experience told me it's too loud to focus on reading with deep levels of meaning anyways.

[Jacob]

The other day my old copy of Tom Brown's School Days surfaced. It reminded me of reading Kipling's Stalky & Co as boy as well and made me wonder about the genre of "boys' boarding school books". Was it ever a genre, and if so what are the other main works in it?

I rather imagine it's not much of a thing these days, or is it? I suppose Harry Potter sort of fits.

[Gups]

The other day my old copy of Tom Brown's School Days surfaced. It reminded me of reading Kipling's Stalky & Co as boy as well and made me wonder about the genre of "boys' boarding school books". Was it ever a genre, and if so what are the other main works in it?

I rather imagine it's not much of a thing these days, or is it? I suppose Harry Potter sort of fits.

Definitely a genre. Read Orwell's essay in it in which he says that the stories are so generic they must have had multiple authors and the brilliant and hilarious reply from Frank Richards outing himself as the author of all of them

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys'_Weeklies

[Jacob]

The other day my old copy of Tom Brown's School Days surfaced. It reminded me of reading Kipling's Stalky & Co as boy as well and made me wonder about the genre of "boys' boarding school books". Was it ever a genre, and if so what are the other main works in it?

I rather imagine it's not much of a thing these days, or is it? I suppose Harry Potter sort of fits.

Definitely a genre. Read Orwell's essay in it in which he says that the stories are so generic they must have had multiple authors and the brilliant and hilarious reply from Frank Richards outing himself as the author of all of them

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys'_Weeklies

I'm not familiar with the magazines in question - do you know how they compare to Stalky & Co and Tom Brown's School Days?

[Syt]

I see Spotify has added a ton of audio books for premium subscribers.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah it was definitely a huge genre. I think quite possibly a late Victorian/early Edwardian British equivalent of American high school films and TV (John Hughes movies, Beverly Hills 90210 etc) - and maybe serving a similar purpose of acceptable degrees youthful rebellion/hijinks by fundamentally decent (and obedient) young people.

Other ones that come to mind are Billy Bunter, Goodbye, Mr Chips and St Trinians (for girls) - last two have very good films based on them too. I believe PG Wodehouse did a school series too (not read and I assume not as good as Jeeves and Wooster - but I'd guess they're very plausibly in the same fictional universe ).

I think Harry Potter gave it a new lease on life but you can absolutely see the appeal for YA authors (which was probably the appeal in the past and in the 80s etc) of basically coming of age novel but in a controlled, total environment - the outside world doesn't really ever impinge on these novels.

I also think it's one of those English genres which have been heartily picked up, adapted and possibly perfected in Japan - a bit like the "golden age" style detective fiction with all of its rules - and it maybe endures there too. What else are the Persona games, for example?

[Razgovory]

What kind of people went to those kind of schools?  Rich, middle class, poor?

[Savonarola]

I believe PG Wodehouse did a school series too (not read and I assume not as good as Jeeves and Wooster - but I'd guess they're very plausibly in the same fictional universe ).

There may be another, but the early "Mike" stories are set in boarding schools and would eventually be put into the novel "Mike."  The first half of the novel isn't worth reading, at least for the Americans, as it's all about cricket.  In the second half of the novel, though still cricket heavy, is saved by the introduction of Psmith; Wodehouses's wonderfully eccentric practical socialist.  In my opinion the later "Leave it to Psmith" is the best non-Jeeves and Wooster novel of the Wodehouse that I've read.  It does take place in the same universe as J&W; most of the novel is set at Blandings.

[Sheilbh]

What kind of people went to those kind of schools?  Rich, middle class, poor?

The rich but the very top would have private tutors. Basically they're private and expensive schools for the elite.

But all the traditional public schools historically had free and poor schools as well - all of which were shut down and the first to close them was Thomas Arnold.

He is the hero headmaster of Tom Brown's Schooldays and a great reforming headmaster who emphasised actual education, muscular Christianity and forming moral character - until then public schools largely had a reputation for dreadful education and living conditions, brutal bullying and sexual abuse and total disorder (weirdly it makes me think of the Russian army). In the 18th and early 19th century there are numerous examples of pupils in public schools launching rebellions, marauding through local villages and basically Lords of the Flies like organised violence that required calling the yeomanry to put them down. So Arnold's reform both reinforces class privilege but is also basically a moral reform/reformation of manners, which these novels/stories reflect, which I think you could argue is basically the triumph of middle class values (compared with the 18th century aristocratic).

And I think by the 19th century the classic kind of person at public schools was there to rusticate new money. An industrialist with vast amounts of money but no "polish" would send their son to public school. They'd learn all the "code" and social/cultural capital stuff to go with the actual capital - and probably get a title of some sort into the bargain.

Eric Hobsbawm is really good on this - though he bemoans the impact of public schools as Britain emphasising the generalist humanities education v technical expertise like Germany or the US. This is absolutely the mainstream view/popular myth of British history I think but contested by, for example, David Edgerton.

[Malthus]

Hi all,

If you want an interesting take on Tom Browns Schooldays I recommend the "Flashman" series by George MacDonald Fraser.

A bit dated now, but very well researched (even has end notes!).

The central idea is that these are the alleged first person memoirs of the villain of Tom Brown's Schooldays - the bully, coward, drunkard and cad Flashman. Naturally, he goes on to have a distinguished career in the British army - where his bullying, drunken, cowardly ways become a positive asset - and, Zelig-like, participated in every notable military disaster of the Victorian era.

[Jacob]

Good to see you Malthus

I think Flashman is significantly more well known that Tom Browns' School Days these days 

[Gups]

Also Enid Blyton's series set in girls schools - Mallory Towers and St clares and the Jennings series (can't remember the writer). All post-war I think. These were all very popular when I was a kid.

[Gups]

The other day my old copy of Tom Brown's School Days surfaced. It reminded me of reading Kipling's Stalky & Co as boy as well and made me wonder about the genre of "boys' boarding school books". Was it ever a genre, and if so what are the other main works in it?

I rather imagine it's not much of a thing these days, or is it? I suppose Harry Potter sort of fits.

Definitely a genre. Read Orwell's essay in it in which he says that the stories are so generic they must have had multiple authors and the brilliant and hilarious reply from Frank Richards outing himself as the author of all of them

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys'_Weeklies

I'm not familiar with the magazines in question - do you know how they compare to Stalky & Co and Tom Brown's School Days?

Orwell accuses Richards of copying them.

[grumbler]

Hi, Mal!

Agree with Jacob, and wonder why there have not been more movie or TV adaptations of the Flashman series.