What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Razgovory]

I guess Legbiter was correct, we are seeing preference falsification.

Huh? Explain.

Legbiter made a weird, jargony post a few weeks back.  Because I'm crazy, I looked up what he was talking about.  He was referring to a theory where people lie about their opinions publicly so they conform to those around them.  However, people vote their real beliefs when voting is secret.  The result is that opinion can shift dramatically when the stigma around certain beliefs dissipates. 

I am reminded of one of the stories Dguller told about living in the Soviet Union.  He mentioned that when he was in school nobody believed in God, but then suddenly, as the political climate changed, it turned out that many people in his class did admit to believing in God.

Yeah that happened a lot with racism in the past.

So actually everybody still hates LBGT people. Shocker.

I'm not sure it's that everyone hates LGBT people, but "T" part does seem to be giving some people problems.  My brother, who is gay, is not particularly fond of Trans, but otherwise supports LGBT.  I think that most people can tolerate trans people.  Sort of a "you can do what you want, so long as you don't hurt anyone", but they become unhappy when they feel that trans people or their allies are perceived to harm others, such gender-affirming care for children, trans in women's sports, etc

[Razgovory]

You know, he's not an evangelical.  His wife is not even Christian.

Who are you talking about?

Vance.  He's Catholic, not evangelical.

[Valmy]

Sort of a "you can do what you want, so long as you don't hurt anyone", but they become unhappy when they feel that trans people or their allies are perceived to harm others, such gender-affirming care for children, trans in women's sports, etc

Gay people were also brutally attacked because they were going to prey on kids and ruin sports. They have short memories.

[Valmy]

You know, he's not an evangelical.  His wife is not even Christian.

Who are you talking about?

Vance.  He's Catholic, not evangelical.

Yeah. He is this new kind of "traditional" Catholic. Which is some kind of Christian Nationalism that worships the United States and thinks the poor should starve but in a very Catholic way.

Theologically different from evangelicals but politically basically identical.

[HVC]

Sort of a "you can do what you want, so long as you don't hurt anyone", but they become unhappy when they feel that trans people or their allies are perceived to harm others, such gender-affirming care for children, trans in women's sports, etc

Gay people were also brutally attacked because they were going to prey on kids and ruin sports. They have short memories.

I remember they were gonna ruin the army, but when were gays ever going to ruin sports? I know it's still a taboo topic to come out because of the machismo thing, but not ruinous. Hell without lesbians there wouldn't be any women's sports

[HVC]

You know, he's not an evangelical.  His wife is not even Christian.

Who are you talking about?

Vance.  He's Catholic, not evangelical.

Yeah. He is this new kind of "traditional" Catholic. Which is some kind of Christian Nationalism that worships the United States and thinks the poor should starve but in a very Catholic way.

Theologically different from evangelicals but politically basically identical.

I've said it before, but Americans are ruining Catholicism

[Valmy]

I remember they were gonna ruin the army, but when were gays ever going to ruin sports? I know it's still a taboo topic to come out because of the machismo thing, but not ruinous. Hell without lesbians there wouldn't be any women's sports

Being openly gay was suicide for men in sports. You were going to ruin it somehow.

Actually there were lesbian scandals in women's sports to, yes yes I get the jokes.

[Valmy]

I've said it before, but Americans are ruining Catholicism

We are ruining Christianity period.

[Jacob]

They seem weirdly eager for a total disaster in so many areas. Between this and the health stuff. They seem to want huge natural disasters and infectious disease to sweep through the country.

I really wonder about that. I can see four main explanations:

1) They genuinely do want bad things to happen for whatever individual or long term political reasons.

2) They have an ideological commitment to letting "the free market" respond rather than government, and are willing to let people die for that ideology.

3) They genuinely believe that the relevant government agencies "do nothing", so cutting them won't make a difference.

4) They think of any potential disasters primarily as a PR and narrative issue, and it's cheaper to spin up solutions as media narratives than actually spend to mitigate risks and/ or provide solutions. If people die or do not die doesn't really matter to them, as long as they can maintain the narratives with the people that matter to their political agendas.

They just don't think most people's lives are worth saving. As simple as that.

That underpins both 2) and 4), but more than one thing can be true at the same time.

[Razgovory]

You know, he's not an evangelical.  His wife is not even Christian.

Who are you talking about?

Vance.  He's Catholic, not evangelical.

Yeah. He is this new kind of "traditional" Catholic. Which is some kind of Christian Nationalism that worships the United States and thinks the poor should starve but in a very Catholic way.

Theologically different from evangelicals but politically basically identical.

No, he identifies as a "postliberal" Catholic.  It really is different than Evangelicalism Christianity.  I mean, Martin Luther King Jr. was an Evangelical.

[Valmy]

Now that I think about it, it could also just be irrational conspiracy theory thinking.

If you really think shutdowns and vaccines and climate change stuff is all a secret plan to destroy humanity and disease and the impacts of climate change are not that bad then I guess getting rid of disease prevention and the weather service wouldn't be that bad.

[HVC]

I remember they were gonna ruin the army, but when were gays ever going to ruin sports? I know it's still a taboo topic to come out because of the machismo thing, but not ruinous. Hell without lesbians there wouldn't be any women's sports

Being openly gay was suicide for men in sports. You were going to ruin it somehow.

Sorry, I meant not ruinous to the sport, not the individual athlete.

Actually there were lesbian scandals in women's sports to, yes yes I get the jokes.

Could very well be true, and I'll take your word for it, I just remember there were (are) a lot of lesbian jokes. We're they scandals because "oh my god gays" or because they'd derail sporting like the trans issues?

[Valmy]

No, he identifies as a "postliberal" Catholic.  It really is different than Evangelicalism Christianity.  I mean, Martin Luther King Jr. was an Evangelical.

I am aware of that Raz. How in the weeds do we need to go here?

I am aware the modern Christian Nationalist Evangelical Christianity has only superficial resemblance to historical Evangelical Christianity. 

Unless you have a substantial point, make it. Being coy is very annoying. What important point about Vance's Catholicism are you making? It is different in what way do we need to be aware of? Be specific.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Vance needs to be excommunicated, by the guy in Rome. Might send a message

[HVC]

I've said it before, but Americans are ruining Catholicism

We are ruining Christianity period.

Fair enough. I always thought the apocalyptic Christianity that permeates the US was odd, but had a historical basis. It's always been around . Individualistic capitalist Christianity though, it's just totally mystifies me. For all the emphasis that protestants put on reading the bible I have to imagine these people never actually have.