What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Oexmelin]

A considerable number of government websites are now getting their open databases scrubbed and removed. Data about health, homelessness, poverty have been removed.

[Razgovory]

The only thing I find upsetting about that BB is the idea that we are ending radical indoctrination. We are already teaching history based on those ideas. So the lie pisses me off, not the idea that those principles are some kind of upsetting thing he is introducing.

So like I said - I think this is a messaging issue and nothing more.  I certainly can't speak for every classroom and every teacher - there may be a few who teach full-on 1619 Project that America's foundation was built on racism and slavery, but I doubt very much it's widespread.  And even if it was, I doubt a Presidential EO will do much to change it given the federal system.

But Oex seemed to take offence at the idea contained within - and I just couldn't.

There is a connection with the 1619 project and something that Oex was complaining about, I don't think it's a connection he sees.  When you teach kids that America is founded on racism, genocide and slavery you are going to give them the impression that irredeemably evil, and many Americans, particularly on the left, do believe that.  People who believe that America is irredeemably evil aren't likely to vote.  They will either drop out of American politics or shift to the idea that America must be destroyed.  If America is a crime, there is no way to reform it.

And so you have voter apathy and calls for "decolonization".  Movements like "defund the police" are part of that.  There can be no reform, just abolition. Since decolonizing the United States, handing back all the land to native Americans, or dismantling the government in favor of a collection of anarchist communes is not remotely realistic, (and not even that desirable by the people who actually promote it), the result is simply people disconnecting from politics.  Moreover, calling for abolishing the police, or calling for decolonization is extremely alienating to the majority of Americans.

Do you have proof of these assertions? The people you talk about in your 2nd paragraph can't have been adversely affected by the 1619 project as it only launched in 2019.

The idea that the US was founded on racism, slavery, and genocide predates Project 1619, so the project is just an example of such thought.  What kind of proof are you looking for?

Proof of your assertion. 

And no, you can recognise that the US was founded by flawed human beings who engaged in morally reprehensible activities while simultaneously building rhetoric for lofty ideals. You can recognise that and still be an engaged citizen. Similar to how we can still praise enlightment thinking even though many of its exponets were unabashed racists.

Which assertion are you talking about exactly, and what would constitute proof?  I'm not talking about flawed individuals, I'm talking about the whole idea of America being racist and evil.  It was founded on slavery and genocide and it's mere existence perpetuates it.  Colonialism is not an event, it is a structure.  It can't help but be racist.

[garbon]

The only thing I find upsetting about that BB is the idea that we are ending radical indoctrination. We are already teaching history based on those ideas. So the lie pisses me off, not the idea that those principles are some kind of upsetting thing he is introducing.

So like I said - I think this is a messaging issue and nothing more.  I certainly can't speak for every classroom and every teacher - there may be a few who teach full-on 1619 Project that America's foundation was built on racism and slavery, but I doubt very much it's widespread.  And even if it was, I doubt a Presidential EO will do much to change it given the federal system.

But Oex seemed to take offence at the idea contained within - and I just couldn't.

There is a connection with the 1619 project and something that Oex was complaining about, I don't think it's a connection he sees.  When you teach kids that America is founded on racism, genocide and slavery you are going to give them the impression that irredeemably evil, and many Americans, particularly on the left, do believe that.  People who believe that America is irredeemably evil aren't likely to vote.  They will either drop out of American politics or shift to the idea that America must be destroyed.  If America is a crime, there is no way to reform it.

And so you have voter apathy and calls for "decolonization".  Movements like "defund the police" are part of that.  There can be no reform, just abolition. Since decolonizing the United States, handing back all the land to native Americans, or dismantling the government in favor of a collection of anarchist communes is not remotely realistic, (and not even that desirable by the people who actually promote it), the result is simply people disconnecting from politics.  Moreover, calling for abolishing the police, or calling for decolonization is extremely alienating to the majority of Americans.

Do you have proof of these assertions? The people you talk about in your 2nd paragraph can't have been adversely affected by the 1619 project as it only launched in 2019.

The idea that the US was founded on racism, slavery, and genocide predates Project 1619, so the project is just an example of such thought.  What kind of proof are you looking for?

Proof of your assertion. 

And no, you can recognise that the US was founded by flawed human beings who engaged in morally reprehensible activities while simultaneously building rhetoric for lofty ideals. You can recognise that and still be an engaged citizen. Similar to how we can still praise enlightment thinking even though many of its exponets were unabashed racists.

Which assertion are you talking about exactly, and what would constitute proof?  I'm not talking about flawed individuals, I'm talking about the whole idea of America being racist and evil.  It was founded on slavery and genocide and it's mere existence perpetuates it.  Colonialism is not an event, it is a structure.  It can't help but be racist.

I'll take that as an admission you were just making a baseless assertion. Carry on.

[Oexmelin]

NSF starts vetting all grants to comply with Trump's orders

https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-nsf-starts-vetting-all-grants-comply-trump-s-orders

[crazy canuck]

A considerable number of government websites are now getting their open databases scrubbed and removed. Data about health, homelessness, poverty have been removed.

Don't worry, I am sure BB is right that this is just about messaging.

[Oexmelin]

CDC Data Are Disappearing
The agency has already removed scientific data from public view. More could follow.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/01/cdc-dei-scientific-data/681531/

[Razgovory]

I'll take that as an admission you were just making a baseless assertion. Carry on.

I don't know what you are asking exactly.  That people who believe something that is unreformable are not interested in trying to reform it?  It is the logical conclusion of that belief.

[grumbler]

Top trade partners are countries you have been subsidizing. For some reasons, that has to end. Trump doesn't care about having a sphere of influence. He wants an empire.

How is the US subsidizing Canada?

I really don't know. It's what Trump keeps saying about our trade surplus/deficit.

Ah. I didn't grok the snark in your post.

[crazy canuck]

So question of the day, will anyone around Trump explain to him the economic destruction that will occur if he puts 25% tariffs on the Americans largest and third largest trading partner?

Or are we just all going to join hands and jump into the abyss of protectionism?

I guess we'll find out in a couple of hours.

[PJL]

So question of the day, will anyone around Trump explain to him the economic destruction that will occur if he puts 25% tariffs on the Americans largest and third largest trading partner?

Or are we just all going to join hands and jump into the abyss of protectionism?

I guess we'll find out in a couple of hours.

Trump won't care, it's not a question of economics for him, it's about punishment for not towing the line. And his supporters will cheer him on with it. We need to learn that people are prepared to make sacrifices to their financial wellbeing if it means that their enemies are hurt even more.

[frunk]

My current theory is that this is a smash and grab operation, and the plan is to leave the US in the worst shape possible so it can't pursue them when they bugger off to China, Saudi Arabia or Russia.

[HisMajestyBOB]

My current theory is that this is a smash and grab operation, and the plan is to leave the US in the worst shape possible so it can't pursue them when they bugger off to China, Saudi Arabia or Russia.

Nah, it's the Putin playbook. Doesn't matter how shitty they make everything for everyone, as long as they can be the king of shit mountain.

[frunk]

Nah, it's the Putin playbook. Doesn't matter how shitty they make everything for everyone, as long as they can be the king of shit mountain.

Putin is much, much smarter than this though.  Until the Ukrainian War he focused on making sure dissent was destroyed and maintaining control.  He didn't actively destroy and incapacitate the government, it was too useful for exerting control.

[HisMajestyBOB]

What opposition or dissent is there that Trump needs to destroy? The Democrats have shown themselves to be thoroughly uninspired and worthless, with leadership that belongs in a nursing home.

[Oexmelin]

My current theory is that this is a smash and grab operation, and the plan is to leave the US in the worst shape possible so it can't pursue them when they bugger off to China, Saudi Arabia or Russia.

Of course. It's been a dismantling operation for a while. All the tech bros are nihilists, and the Trump clan is utterly corrupt. Loyalty, the nation, higher principles - it has no meaning for them. But it's not really about leaving. It's about guaranteeing impunity. Once, that impunity could only be paid by fleeing the country. Now, it's about to be guaranteed without even the annoyance of having to relocate.