German Federal Election 23rd February 2025

[Zanza]

So how much longer before an AfD chancellor? Will it be this election or after the new government falls apart within a year?

Two more legislative periods would put us in 2033...

[Zanza]

Merz, leader of the Conservatives and likely next chancellor, announced that his party would propose stricter migration laws and that he goes not care which parties support it. That basically means he is willing to get support from the fascists. At least he is open about before the election, but I doubt it will move the needle much.

[Neil]

Merz, leader of the Conservatives and likely next chancellor, announced that his party would propose stricter migration laws and that he goes not care which parties support it. That basically means he is willing to get support from the fascists. At least he is open about before the election, but I doubt it will move the needle much.

There's even the tantalizing possibility that he'll draw moderate voters away from the AfD. 

[Valmy]

Moderate AfD supporters?

Well here is hoping they are more common than the ever elusive never-Trump Republican voter.

But seriously Denmark's parties went full anti-immigrant to save themselves from fascism right? That could be the way out for Germany. Sad as that is.

[PJL]

Moderate AfD supporters?

Well here is hoping they are more common than the ever elusive never-Trump Republican voter.

But seriously Denmark's parties went full anti-immigrant to save themselves from fascism right? That could be the way out for Germany. Sad as that is.

It does seem that way, that mass immigration facilitates fascism and the only real counter is to limit it to some extent. The more successful the left is in promoting immigration the better the prospects for the far right.

[Neil]

Moderate AfD supporters?

Well here is hoping they are more common than the ever elusive never-Trump Republican voter.

A section of AfD voters are voting against immigration, because that's their big issue.  The rest of it, they're just along for the ride with.  Even in Europe, with all their little parties, you don't agree 100% with everything the party leader says. 

The never-Trumps are real, and indeed you saw prominent Republicans campaigning for Harris, and Trump's votes being lackluster in places.  But it's fiendishly hard for incumbents to win right now, with global economic conditions turning against most people, and that's ignoring the fact that the people running against Trump were medically incompetent and then the most unpopular major candidate in living memory. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Merz, leader of the Conservatives and likely next chancellor, announced that his party would propose stricter migration laws and that he goes not care which parties support it. That basically means he is willing to get support from the fascists. At least he is open about before the election, but I doubt it will move the needle much.

On the other hand: if any proposal you make becomes beyond the pale because the afd might vote for it then you might as well stop with politics because you just gave the party the blocking strategy

[Syt]

Merz, leader of the Conservatives and likely next chancellor, announced that his party would propose stricter migration laws and that he goes not care which parties support it. That basically means he is willing to get support from the fascists. At least he is open about before the election, but I doubt it will move the needle much.

The ÖVP tried to poach voters from FPÖ by co-opting their policies and moving further to the right. All it did was push their voters to FPÖ.

[Zanza]

On the other hand: if any proposal you make becomes beyond the pale because the afd might vote for it then you might as well stop with politics because you just gave the party the blocking strategy

That's not the criterion. If you vote for something universally popular and the fascists also agree, it does not matter. But if you only find a majority with the fascist, but not without them, you have to ask yourself why in a consensus driven democracy like Germany.

[grumbler]

The never-Trumps are real, and indeed you saw prominent Republicans campaigning for Harris, and Trump's votes being lackluster in places.  But it's fiendishly hard for incumbents to win right now, with global economic conditions turning against most people, and that's ignoring the fact that the people running against Trump were medically incompetent and then the most unpopular major candidate in living memory. 

You weren't living when Trump (the most unpopular candidate in US history (as far back as the polls go) ran in 2016, 2020, and 2024?  When Hillary Clinton ran in 2016?

Harris was underwater by 2 points on election day 2024, Trump by over 8.  It wasn't candidate popularity that decided that election.

[Zanza]

The Conservatives and Liberals had the Fascists join a parliamentary motion on migration today. Their conscience supposedly forced them break this former taboo. Strange that they show their true colours before the election already.

[Tamas]

I am sure they think they will be able to control the far right by giving them ground. Worked splendidly in the past didn't it.