Grand unified books thread

[Sheilbh]

Just read The Wager and read Killers of the Flower Moon earlier in the year - I'd bought these separately and hadn't realised they were by the same writer.

Both really excellent, strongly recommend both of them. And I'll look into what else David Grann has written.

[Admiral Yi]

I also think the scandi-noire crime genre needs to be nuked from orbit.

I was not impressed by my sample.

[Syt]

A while ago I picked up some DND book bundles on Humble Bundle. After BG3 I felt like reading some, so I dug into R.A. Salvatore's Homeland. It's not the first published Drizzt novel, but chronoloically the first, starting with his birth and exile from Menzoberranzan.

It was fine. I'm still not a big fan of the Drow in DND - I would have loved them when I was a teen or in my 20s, but their edgelordness (well, edgeladyness, I guess, them being a matriarchy ) is fairly cringeworthy to me. That said, while I only knew Drizzt from briefly meeting him in BG1, for a bit I loved playing dextrous dual wielding characters in RPGs because IT'S KEWL TO THE MAXXX!

Mostly I realized that the Sith in SWTOR (at least in the initial campaign when you're on Korriban and Dromund Kaas) are essentially the Drow from DND, constantly fighting and plotting and scheming for dominance while trying to gain favor of their distant deity.

Will still finish this trilogy, thouh (Exile and Sojourn), because they're quick reads, at least. But looking through recommended Forgotten Realms series, it all seems to be boiling down to either Drizzt books, or something something Drow, or both.

Aside from Forgotten Realms, I hear early Dragonlance (first two trilogies) is fun at least?

[Grey Fox]

I like Timeless, Boundless and Relentless. Grizzled old Drow Drizzt is fun.

[viper37]

I've began reading a new series set in the early Roman Empire, Soldiers of Rome: the Artorian Chronicles.

It begins in the Reign of Augustus, at the Teutoburg battles, as Arminiums ambush the Roman Legionaries.   Switch to a young Roman, Artorius, whose brother was among the casualties and swears to become a legionary and exact revenge on the Germans.  A few years later, his dream come true, he becomes a legionary, and we follow his training, and later his battles, under the overall command of Germanicus.

It is not that well written.  I have seen much better historical fiction.  But it passes the time.

[The Minsky Moment]

Mostly I realized that the Sith in SWTOR (at least in the initial campaign when you're on Korriban and Dromund Kaas) are essentially the Drow from DND, constantly fighting and plotting and scheming for dominance while trying to gain favor of their distant deity.

Parallel between the Drow and the late 6th century Merovingians with powerful Queens brutally scheming and cutting down rivals.  Given success of Game of Thrones, I'm surprised no one has taken a shot at a historical novel cycle of that period.  Merovingians even have some Q score thanks to Dan Brown and the Matrix.

[Barrister]

Will still finish this trilogy, thouh (Exile and Sojourn), because they're quick reads, at least. But looking through recommended Forgotten Realms series, it all seems to be boiling down to either Drizzt books, or something something Drow, or both.

Aside from Forgotten Realms, I hear early Dragonlance (first two trilogies) is fun at least?

So for Forgotten Realms, I was going to suggest the Icewind Dale trilogy - only to realize that actually was the first appearance of Drizzt, and was the same author R.A. Salvatore!

Drizzt always annoyed me as well for the same reasons - he was just so "edgy to the max".  In Icewind Dale though while he is a main character the entire story doesn't revolve around his edginess so it's a little more palatable (from what I remember - it's been a long, long time).

I read the first two Dragonlance books recently (too lazy to order the third one yet).  For me they were a fun blast of nostalgia, but not sure how they'd hold up to a first time reader.  They're a quick read - really these were aimed at teen-agers.  The characters are two-dimensional - but at least they're not one dimensional?  (Tanis half-elven, trapped between the two sides of his heritage, and in love with both a human, and a elf, woman.  Sturm Brightblade, trying to ive up to his father's legacy.  Raistlin, the mage driven by a pursuit for power, but who still cares for his twin brother Caramon).  It's nothing all that nuanced, but at least they tried?

The second trilogy is a time-travel story where some of the characters travel back in time.  It was also allright - but definitely don't go any further into Dragonlance books.

[Sheilbh]

Parallel between the Drow and the late 6th century Merovingians with powerful Queens brutally scheming and cutting down rivals.  Given success of Game of Thrones, I'm surprised no one has taken a shot at a historical novel cycle of that period.  Merovingians even have some Q score thanks to Dan Brown and the Matrix.

Is there enough detail/actual known history of what life was like to do a historical novel? Would it maybe just be easier to do it as fantasy as you can be inspired by the plot but feel less constrained by the lack of what you can get out of research?

(I know literally nothing about the period, beyond Dan Brown's historical fiction )

[Syt]

Thanks for the recommendations, Beeb; some easy escapist reading is just fine right now.

[garbon]

Parallel between the Drow and the late 6th century Merovingians with powerful Queens brutally scheming and cutting down rivals.  Given success of Game of Thrones, I'm surprised no one has taken a shot at a historical novel cycle of that period.  Merovingians even have some Q score thanks to Dan Brown and the Matrix.

Is there enough detail/actual known history of what life was like to do a historical novel? Would it maybe just be easier to do it as fantasy as you can be inspired by the plot but feel less constrained by the lack of what you can get out of research?

(I know literally nothing about the period, beyond Dan Brown's historical fiction )

There would totally be enough. I only dealt with them incidentally in my degree and while there isn't as much as we have for the Carolingians there is enough to create a historical drama. Especially when you consider the level of historicity required from the average viewer.

[Syt]

Mostly I realized that the Sith in SWTOR (at least in the initial campaign when you're on Korriban and Dromund Kaas) are essentially the Drow from DND, constantly fighting and plotting and scheming for dominance while trying to gain favor of their distant deity.

Parallel between the Drow and the late 6th century Merovingians with powerful Queens brutally scheming and cutting down rivals.  Given success of Game of Thrones, I'm surprised no one has taken a shot at a historical novel cycle of that period.  Merovingians even have some Q score thanks to Dan Brown and the Matrix.

Oddly enough I was listening to the The Rest is History episodes covering that topic recently. I agree about the parallel, but I'd argue that it was two protagonists in history that were the exception, not the rule, as opposed to the completely matriarchical hellscape that's the Drow. (Not saying that the creators of Drow lore weren't inspired by history, and - let's be honest - their BDSM fetishes )

[Barrister]

Mostly I realized that the Sith in SWTOR (at least in the initial campaign when you're on Korriban and Dromund Kaas) are essentially the Drow from DND, constantly fighting and plotting and scheming for dominance while trying to gain favor of their distant deity.

Parallel between the Drow and the late 6th century Merovingians with powerful Queens brutally scheming and cutting down rivals.  Given success of Game of Thrones, I'm surprised no one has taken a shot at a historical novel cycle of that period.  Merovingians even have some Q score thanks to Dan Brown and the Matrix.

Oddly enough I was listening to the The Rest is History episodes covering that topic recently. I agree about the parallel, but I'd argue that it was two protagonists in history that were the exception, not the rule, as opposed to the completely matriarchical hellscape that's the Drow. (Not saying that the creators of Drow lore weren't inspired by history, and - let's be honest - their BDSM fetishes )

I made the mistake of reading up on the Drow and Drizzt - and of course they're caught up in the culture wars too, with some people arguing that since Drow have black skin and are evil the concept is inherently racist.  Now there is definitely some racist stuff in D&D, but that one seems like quite a stretch.

[The Minsky Moment]

Is there enough detail/actual known history of what life was like to do a historical novel?

There's actually a surprising amount of information known, as there was still some continuity with Roman culture and the literary tradition survived within the Church.  Gregory of Tours' history survives, and he was a contemporary of all the major players, knew them personally. There's quite a bit of other written material, such as legal codes, legislation and decrees, lives of saints etc. It's not like England where we basically know virtually nothing before Bede other than what can be guessed from the archaeology.

[Sheilbh]

That's really interesting - the recent Rest is History series on the Franks was literally the first thing I'd actually learned about them so it was interesting. I had no idea.

Sort of similarly I just read a review for a new translation of Y Gododdin which I knew nothing about. It is believed the be the earliest British poem and probably from precisely that period (before Bede) and is basically a series of elegiac poems for heroes who fought in a battle between Britons and Angles, which I'm going to get because it sounds interesting and I know nothing about any of it. It's a poem about being defeated and knowing you're defeated by barbarians in some ways. But I am very ignorant about this so for example the reviewer said the poem is clearly from a Christian society and it was something I'd never really thought of (despite knowing the story of St Patrick) about how the society of the Britons was Christian. Apparently I'm not alone as he mentioned a museum near the site of the battle talking about pagan Anglo-Saxon religion as well as pagan Celtic traditions (which, apparently, there's very little evidence of).

Edit: Similarly which I had no idea of, apparently Welsh has absolutely loads of Latin origin works - which makes sense, the Welsh football team's big song references  Magnus Maximus leaving Wales in 383. But just never occurred to me.

[The Minsky Moment]

For England between 410 and Bede the only real contemporary historical source is Gildas (there is an account of the visit of Germanus in 429 but it was written 40 years after his death).  And Gildas is very frustrating because he clearly knows things that would be interesting and useful for a historian but his own interests lie elsewhere and we are left drawing inferences from his dribbles and breadcrumbs.