The Real problem with cancel culture

[Sheilbh]

Not sure how that explains continued reverence for Trump. He accomplished little but attachment remains.

It doesn't and he's not an outsider now. But I just mean it's an environment where candidates like Trump seem more likely to succeed.

Although I think the thing about a direct personal relation with supporters is possibly key. It's not just Trump because I've felt the same with Corbyn supporters in the UK (and there may be other examples too) but it feels like a lot of his supporters are fans (or stans). It seems closer to internet sports and celebrity culture than traditional politics where that candidate has a meaning to you as a person that is almost detached from their politics or their ability to deliver on them. Similarly attacking that politician is felt more personally by their fans than attacking a traditional politician or party is felt by their supporters.

And there's something slightly un-democratic about that because politics is ultimately about persuasion and argument and sometimes your side loses. While I think the fan style people aren't interested in that, they're not about persuasion - the rest of us just don't 'get it'.

[Barrister]

OK, so this thread hasn't been used in about two years, but seems like the best bet for this story:

Bubble tea company apologizes after Dragons' Den cultural appropriation spat
Expert says a rebrand might be in order for the Quebec City company

The entrepreneurs behind Bobba, a bottled version of bubble tea, drew criticism after an appearance on CBC's Dragons' Den, alleging that they had misappropriated the popular Taiwanese drink. (Anis Heydari/CBC)

A Quebec company has apologized following an appearance on CBC's Dragons' Den, during which celebrity judge Simu Liu expressed concerns that the brand was culturally appropriating a Taiwanese beverage.

The company, Bobba, sells a bottled version of boba tea, or bubble tea, which is typically made of cold tea and chewy tapioca pearls. It originated in Taiwan during the 1980s before it became popular in North America.

Quebec City entrepreneurs Sebastian Fiset and Jessica Frenette appeared on the show on Thursday seeking a $1 million investment in exchange for 18 per cent of their business, pitching their version of the popular drink as a "convenient and healthier ready-to-drink experience."

They touted their brand's popping boba pearls and an alcoholic version of the beverage.

Liu, a Chinese Canadian actor and investor, said he was concerned about "this idea of disrupting or disturbing bubble tea," adding that it was a matter of cultural appropriation, which is when a majority adopts the customs or culture of a minority in a way that can be perceived as inappropriate or insensitive.

"I want to be a part of bringing boba to the masses, but not like this," he said. Liu did not invest in the company.

Fiset said the company works closely with a supplier and recipe developer in Taiwan but also said, because of bubble tea's mainstream popularity, that it's "not an [ethnic] product anymore."

Clips from the episode went viral on social media, with some users attacking Fiset and Frenette for the appearance. The company took to Instagram on Monday to apologize, saying it did not intend to "harm or disrespect the community that created and popularized this beloved drink."

"At no point did we mean to insinuate that our Bobba bubble tea is better than traditional bubble tea in any way."

One marketing expert says that, in the age of swift social media backlash, the company might have to change its branding to recover.

"I think on a mass audience perspective, it's for sure going to impact their brand image. I think apologizing is a good start and acknowledging the issue is a good start," said Aleena Muzhar Kuzma, a branding expert in Whitby, Ont., and a senior vice-president, managing director and partner at marketing agency Fuse Create.

But, she said, the company has some work to do amid the fallout — which included Dragons' Den investor Manjit Minhas announcing that she has pulled her investment in response to the criticism.

A company in Bobba's position, Kuzma says, should: "Be clear on how you are not appropriating Asian culture and you're actually respecting it and potentially have advisers from the community."

Long considered a Taiwanese staple, bubble tea emerged from Taiwan's local tea shops before spreading elsewhere across Asia. It became especially prevalent in North America during the 2010s when tea brands saw a resurgence in popularity. The bubble tea industry in the U.S. was valued at $2.4 billion in 2024 by market research firm IBISWorld.

"I think that that brand story needs to tie back to heritage and culture and where this product actually came from in a more authentic way," she said.

Carmen Cheng, a Calgary-based Chinese Canadian food writer and equity consultant, says she grew up drinking bubble tea.

"When we're thinking about culturally ethnic foods, oftentimes people from the cultures in Canada or North America are made fun of for our food, our norms, our customs, our dress, our appearance," she said.

"And then you have someone who maybe, quote-unquote, 'makes it better,'" she said.

Cheng says said she can see how that mindset could be perceived as transformative or innovative.

"But I think, when we think about appropriation, we're thinking about taking from a culture in a way where there's a difference in power dynamic and maybe even an imbalance in how the culture is perceived," she said.

In its apology, Bobba alleged that it had been subjected to hate speech and that its founders were receiving death threats as part of the backlash. CBC News has not been able to independently verify the allegations.

The company did not return calls for further comment.

In a statement, CBC spokesperson Chuck Thompson said Bobba's segment on Dragons' Den "sparked an important conversation but unfortunately a lot of online bullying of show participants at the same time."

"Many people have shared their thoughts and opinions in a respectful manner but we certainly do not condone the hurtful comments made by others. We support the calls for this harassment to stop immediately."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bobba-bubble-tea-company-dragons-den-simu-1.7352304

Like how the hell can you "culturally appropriate" bubble tea?

Quick googling suggests it was invented way, way back in... the 1980s.  Yes, it was invented in Taiwan, but had hit north america by the 1990s.  And which culture gets to claim it anyways?  Taiwan, or all of east asia?

I can have some sympathy for using cultural references of deep significance in a cheap and commercial way - but bubble tea is very new, and has always been a commercial product.

In this instance Simu Liu is free not to invest in the company, but it caused other investors to pull out, and caused the company to be forced to apologize and apparently suffer death threats and harassment.

[Grey Fox]

The RoC culturally appropriates Poutine all the time, the double standards always apply.

[Josquius]

Is China appropriating western IP?

[The Brain]

Do you have to be indigenous Taiwanese or can you be descended from immigrated mainland Chinese to make and sell it?

[Barrister]

The RoC culturally appropriates Poutine all the time, the double standards always apply.

Poutine is a fascinating example.  Yes, it's originally from Quebec.  By itself though it doesn't seem like such an amazing invention.  Fries have been served with gravy forever.  Putting cheese on top is also quite common.  What makes poutine unique is using cheese curds, which since they should be fresh make them hard to store.

But then a lot of what you'll get labelled as "poutine" just uses any old cheese.  I've heard of that dish being called "disco fries", but now at least in Western Canada it would be labelled as poutine - even though it's the exact same dish.

[Savonarola]

I'm in Toronto right now. I had jerk chicken chow mein for dinner last night and a piri-piri chicken, pepadew pepper and sweet potato power bowl for lunch. Culinary cultural appropriation seems like a fundamental Canadian value; this is the land of sushi pizza and shawarma French fries after all. 

[Barrister]

I'm in Toronto right now. I had jerk chicken chow mein for dinner last night and a piri-piri chicken, pepadew pepper and sweet potato power bowl for lunch. Culinary cultural appropriation seems like a fundamental Canadian value; this is the land of sushi pizza and shawarma French fries after all. 

To try and be fair to the other side - the issue isn't fusion meals.  If you want to make jerk chicken chow mein, or shawarma poutine, that's one thing.

But if you want to make more-or-less authentic meals - do you need to be associated with the original culture?  Can only mexican people make tacos?  Can only asian people make bubble tea?

[HVC]

Funny that he came to prominence playing a Korean Canadian and now wants to gate keep when he was happy enough to play as a different ethnicity when it suited him. 

[Admiral Yi]

Marty the Polish lawyer asked one time if the progressive left had ever been shown to be wrong about a cause in the long run.  Cultural appropriation and manspreading.

[Barrister]

Marty the Polish lawyer asked one time if the progressive left had ever been shown to be wrong about a cause in the long run.  Cultural appropriation and manspreading.

I think the even better answer would be prohibition.  But you're not wrong.

[garbon]

Marty the Polish lawyer asked one time if the progressive left had ever been shown to be wrong about a cause in the long run.  Cultural appropriation and manspreading.

I think the even better answer would be prohibition.  But you're not wrong.

He isn't right.

[Barrister]

Funny that he came to prominence playing a Korean Canadian and now wants to gate keep when he was happy enough to play as a different ethnicity when it suited him. 

To be a little bit fair to Liu - he's the most public Chinese face of the Marvel movies.  Whether China decides to release Marvel movies in China or not makes a difference of hundreds of millions of dollars to Disney.  So I think he faces a lot of pressure to give the most pro-China position he can.

[Barrister]

Marty the Polish lawyer asked one time if the progressive left had ever been shown to be wrong about a cause in the long run.  Cultural appropriation and manspreading.

I think the even better answer would be prohibition.  But you're not wrong.

He isn't right.

Expound.

[frunk]

I think the even better answer would be prohibition.  But you're not wrong.

Prohibition originated from very conservative, religious groups.  It wasn't particularly left wing at all.