Did the last 40 years see more change than any other period of history?

[Jacob]

Yeah I think that's a good point

[Threviel]

Just look at cars these last 40 years. A side by side comparison makes a modern car a space ship in comparison to a 1984 car and if we go back to 1944 the 1984 car is not a space ship in comparison.

There's an order of magnitude more difference, but it's still a car with the same use case so we might not see the difference very clearly.

[Jacob]

As with all these types of questions, it really depends on the types of change we prioritize and the metrics we use to measure them.

[Barrister]

So interesting thread.

Seems like there are two separate ways of looking at it - political, and technological.

The political is very much going to depend on where you live.  I certainly get the argument for why decolonization was such a huge deal for Africa, or China, or India (or the flip side - why colonization was).  But living in Canada decolonization had very little impact on us.

That being said - I'd like to make the case for 1790-1830 or so.  Obviously you have the French revolution, and then the Napoleonic wards which completely re-organized Europe.  But you also had huge steps to abolish slavery during that time period, with revolutionary france and the UK both abolishing slavery, the UK attempting to ban it throughout the world, and with Haiti successfully rebelling and ending slavery there.  Obviously slavery itself as an institution would last several more decades in parts of the world (US, Brazil) but there was a huge change to millions of formerly enslaved people around the world during this time period.


As for technologically...  yes on the one hand you can definitely make the argument for, say, 1920-1960 or so.  If you were born in 1920 odds are you had no electricity and the primary mode of transportation was the horse, whereas by 1960 electricity and automobiles were standard (and not to mention indoor plumbing!).

But don't discount 1984-2024!  Yes, we don't have flying cars or whatever.  But the information revolution is massive.    Growing up we got our first computer actually at Christmas 1984 - an Apple IIc.  I loved that thing - but it didn't exactly change our lives.  Mostly used it to play games, or I'd type out a few school assignments.  I remember when we first got a modem by the late 80s - we used it to dial in to local BBSes - now you could chat with people all around your local community.  Then move on to email, the internet, cell phone and social media.  We now carry in our pockets powerful computers with the ability to communicate with people anywhere on earth.  It's had huge affects on politics both good (how Ukraine was able to organize their own resistance) and bad (the Chinese surveillance state).  The technology is so cheap it's spread world-wide - even urban slum dwellers in Africa or India can access the world.

[grumbler]

I think that that is a good summary of some viable candidates.  A significant change in your 1790-1830 bracket was the rise of the war on the Atlantic Slave Trade, which changed the lives of probably millions of Africans that would otherwise have been taken.

[Barrister]

I think that that is a good summary of some viable candidates.  A significant change in your 1790-1830 bracket was the rise of the war on the Atlantic Slave Trade, which changed the lives of probably millions of Africans that would otherwise have been taken.

Yeah the European stuff is very important in European history, but not necessarily for the wider world.  I thought the changes in slavery, combined with the changes in Europe, made it a contender.

Oh I also forgot - during that period Spain lost all of it's South and central American colonies.

[Norgy]

I would like to pitch in an outlier. The Chinese Tang dynasty. It lasted for more than 40 years, but saw revolutionary developments. Like the use of brown coal. Michael Wood makes a case for the Tang dynasty having a "first industrial revolution" in the 8th century. Thankfully, we Europeans weren't bothered much because of Viking and Arab incursions.

I don't know how many of you who've read Graeber and Wengrow's "The Dawn of Everything". While it may also be an outlier in the Incan Torpedo Boat category in some places, they do make some interesting points.

Mass communication, like after 1900, has been a revolutionary change. I think it is rather amazing that we can sit here, in different countries and communicate. And we can even meet up.

I'd also make a case for the 1914-1954. The Great War was such an implosion on the world order and the senseless slaughter of millions in the trenches changed Europe forever. As a continent, we shot off our own feet for a very low rate of return. The radio, the car, the household appliances like a washing machine, all became more available. Class conflict showed how industrial societies had deepened the enmity within countries.

Then came WWII and it changed Europe fundamentally by 1945. It was the rise of a bipolar world. Technological innovation was enormous during the war and afterwards. And after that we have had to live under the threat of mutually assured mass destruction.

I can see a case for the opening post of this thread, but I simply am not sure. Because you guys have made so many other valid points that I nod at and accept.
Aren't we a clever bunch?

[Josquius]

I do wonder whether there's a 40 year period af some point in history where the stars align and bad shit goes down for basically every corner of the world.
The Qing dynasty conquering China lines up pretty well with the 30 years war I believe.
Could be in the running for the constant change this means.
Anything better out there? The last days of rome lining up with one of china's divided periods?
No idea about elsewhere in the world alas.

[Sheilbh]

I do wonder whether there's a 40 year period af some point in history where the stars align and bad shit goes down for basically every corner of the world.

My guess would be that they are and it probably aligns with some form of climate event.

Don't tell HVC but I'm a slight Qing apologist But it does broadly align with the 30 Years War etc.

[Norgy]

Didn't historians come up with 536 as the worst year in recorded history?

Like everything went to pot thanks to volcanic eruptions in the Pacific. The year is supposedly the reason the "Fimbulvinter" is in Norse mythology. The endless winter. Which again inspired a certain writer to write books about wars about an iron throne. So it wasn't all bad. 

[HVC]

I do wonder whether there's a 40 year period af some point in history where the stars align and bad shit goes down for basically every corner of the world.

My guess would be that they are and it probably aligns with some form of climate event.

Don't tell HVC but I'm a slight Qing apologist But it does broadly align with the 30 Years War etc.

I knew it!

[Norgy]

What's your beef schezhuan with the Chinese, HVC?

[HVC]

What's your beef schezhuan with the Chinese, HVC?

China/PRC specifically. They lie about everything and some *cough* Shelibh *cough* believe them ( ).  Plus there the humanitarian issues and overall geopolitical threat.

[Norgy]

Right. Carry on!

[Savonarola]

What I'm curious about is what are the big scientific and technological advances of the last 40 years.  In the last 25 years in particular, it seems we haven't had much.  I find it very disappointing. I can't help but feel that could be making strides in genetic engineering, but have been stymied by laws and public hysteria.

40 years ago a smart phone would have sounded like something out of science fiction: a device which fits in your pocket which can be a phone (a Jetson's phone for that matter), compass, phone, camera, video camera, calculator, notepad, photo album as well as having access to a vast library of books, music and movies and can facilitates all manner of commerce.  That we use such a marvelous technology mostly to spread conspiracy theories, watch cat videos and film ourselves eating detergent pods would probably have sounded equally preposterous.

 

When I started my career (1994) a cellular switch was a floor of an office building, today it's a server you can mount on a 19" rack.  19.2 Kbps of data transmission was the theoretical maximum of data throughput on a cellular modem; today it's 10 Gbps (downlink; uplink is slower but still over 100 Mbps.)  This is due to a series of incremental changes, rather than something revolutionary (like going from steam power to electricity or telegraph to telephone or relays and vacuum tubes to transistors) so it's less jarring.