Did the last 40 years see more change than any other period of history?

[Razgovory]

There has been no 40 year stretch in all of human history which had more change than 1984 - 2024.

This was posted on Pdox boards by the inestimable Yakman this week.  I disagreed.  I pointed out that the previous 40 years, 1944-1984 saw more changes.  Stuff like the Atomic bomb, decolonization, the end of WW2, the moon landing, etc.  What do you folks think?

[Sheilbh]

I'd say no - but also that you can probably make a credible case for basically any 40 year period since the industrial revolution.

[HVC]

My vote is for the first 40 years of the Bronze Age.

[Josquius]

I'd say no - but also that you can probably make a credible case for basically any 40 year period since the industrial revolution.

Yes.

I think the past 40 years has seen changes that are huge but very subtle. Mental rather than material.
The web has been massive and revolutionary, especially since it went onto smartphones. I think it might be fair to say the human mind has changed more in the past 2 decades than at any other point.

I suppose the environment is another one worth noting. The changes and devestation there have been huge...

And then it's worth considering we could be stuck in a western mindset. Consider how much things have changed in parts of the developing world. China in particular but elswhere too. This has been huge. And broadly for the better of the people there.
Even away from there the way flying has become such a borderline every day thing in Europe is also massive.

No...thinking it through I do think the original statement is right.

[grumbler]

1914-1954 saw far, far more significant change.

[Tamas]

My grandma went from not having electricity in their home when she was a little kid to talking to her grandson who was half a continent away on a tablet (even if with help) near the end of her life.

I agree with Raz.

[Razgovory]

One thing that I've been thinking about for several weeks is how little scientific advance we've had in the last 20 years.  Honestly, the world doesn't seem that much different than it was back in 2000.  What great scientific and technological advances have their been in the last two decades.  Sure, I can watch pornography on the bus, but that's not exactly life changing.  Despite all our advances in IT and the internet we haven't really seen a big increase in productivity.  The other big area where we could advance is genetic engineering, and we've been actively stymied in that department.

[Josquius]

My grandma went from not having electricity in their home when she was a little kid to talking to her grandson who was half a continent away on a tablet (even if with help) near the end of her life.

I agree with Raz.

Man your family has kids young.
And Hungary in the 80s sure sounds rough.

[Tamas]

My grandma went from not having electricity in their home when she was a little kid to talking to her grandson who was half a continent away on a tablet (even if with help) near the end of her life.

I agree with Raz.

Man your family has kids young.
And Hungary in the 80s sure sounds rough.

My grandma died 6 weeks short of her 100th birthday. And the no electricity bit was mid-20s

[Valmy]

I always thought the generation that went from living a pretty traditional way to having trains and steam ships and telegraphs and eventually electricity and telephones went through the biggest change. That must have been mind blowing.

Sure things changed a bunch since 1984 but...we were pretty used to things changing by then. Nothing that has happened technology wise would have shocked many people in 1984, they knew big changes were coming because they had been ongoing for 100 years. Heck I think my 1984 self would be more disappointed by what didn't happen by 2024.

[grumbler]

I think that you guys are looking at the question from a Western-centric viewpoint.  China in 1914 was divided and torn by civil war and foreign spheres of influence with Chinese peasants dying in floods, famines, and epidemics in the millions, some years.  In 1954, they were united under the CCP, had peace, health care, the start of education, women went from being property to having equal rights, etc.  That's a quarter of the world's population seeing massive, almost unbeievable (by 1914 standards) change.

Another 15% of the world's population was in India.  From dirtwater-poor resource extraction for their British overlords to an independent state and the world's biggest democracy.  From caste-oppressed (by law) to casteless (at least by law).  Women, again, went from being virtual property to legally-equal citizens. 

Africa shows the same trend, with 10% of the world's population, though decolonization was only getting started by 1954.

[Josquius]

It's in looking beyond the west that more of a case for recent years emerges.
I think life in China has changed more in the past 40 years than in the early 20th century.

It was more turbulent back then. More "change" in the sense of "which army will torch my village this year", but then China has had lots of such turbulent periods in history. I don't think it means that sort of change.

For a regular villager life between the Qing and the early PRC would be little different.
In more recent times however you get Valmys generation that went from largely unchanged for centuries to cars and mobile phones.
Many villages have outright been turned into modern cities in the blink of an eye.

As to Africa... I don't think decolonisation changed much for the average guy. Again it's in more recent times where urbanisation has really took off and mobile phones have led to rural Africa leapfrogging a few stages of development and totally changed people's view of the world.

[Sheilbh]

Between Qing and PRC 25% of China was occupied by Japanese (the most populous bit), tens of millions of civilians died, Chiang burst the dykes causing the Yellow River to change course (not unheard of in Chinese history) - that's ignoring the warlord era and then replacement by the PRC.

Obviously there's a debate of whether you mean the speed of change by measuring the cutting edge or scale of it by measuring its reach.

I absolutely think it's true that the pace and breadth of change in China has been exceptional - you know it is wild to think of Western politicians like Keir Starmer becoming PM at 60. The change he's seen in the UK from the mid-60s is not really that significant. An equivalent Chinese politician lived through the Cultural Revolution, Deng and Reform and Opening, Tiananmen, huge economic growth since then including "peak openness" at the Olympics to Xi and a new more closed era. But I think a similar argument could be made from the end of Qing to PRC, or the years of the collapsing Qing - Opium, Taiping, foreigners, the entire social and intellectual order of Qing society falling apart etc.

[HVC]

So what you're saying is that it's always sucked to be a citizen of China.

[crazy canuck]

My grandma went from not having electricity in their home when she was a little kid to talking to her grandson who was half a continent away on a tablet (even if with help) near the end of her life.

I agree with Raz.

Man your family has kids young.
And Hungary in the 80s sure sounds rough.

My grandma died 6 weeks short of her 100th birthday. And the no electricity bit was mid-20s

For someone in Hungary I would have thought the biggest changes occurred since 1984.  Although Grumbler makes a compelling case for 1914-1954.