Archaeologists do it in holes: Tales from the stratigraphy

[Sheilbh]

Outside the box idea.
But stories I've seen about stonehenge all have it as a big purposeful effort.
Someone decided to move this big rock from one place many miles to another place.

Can we tell whether this was actually the case or is it feasible they could have been moved over time?
Tribe 1 steals tribe 2s magic stone steals tribe 3s magic stone until after many years it ends up far from where it stated?

Oh I think it was absolutely built over centuries (although not sure anyone is stealing a 6 tonne piece of stone on a raid - I think that indicates cooperation not stone age looting). And obviously it's just the visible bit - there are many layers and multiple other henges in what is now understood as (and perhaps now is) a wider sacred landscape.

[Jacob]

I've no idea - not just Scotland but it's Orcadian rock so Orkney, Caithness (where I grew up) or bits of Sutherland. It's about 15-8 hours by car between there and where Stonehenge is.

Probably a lot longer back then since the roads were of much lower quality.

[Sheilbh]

Fair. Although the A303, Highway to the Sun, is a nightmare for traffic so it's probably six of one half dozen of the other

[Richard Hakluyt]

I just hope that the Scots don't demand their stone back, like they did with the stone of destiny 

[jimmy olsen]

If it was from Orkney then they could have put it on a boat for a large portion of the journey though, right?

I don't know. I've no idea about the ancient Orkadians - Skara Brae is one of the most amazing places I've ever been though. And the islands are littered with (small) standing circles.

I'm not sure when Orkeny lost their trees though - my understand was that part of the reason you have an entire village like Skara Brae in stone is because the trees were gone by that point. I've no idea if that's the case. Practically I think it'd have to be Caithness or Sutherland.

The boat that carried it could have been made outside of Orkney though

[Legbiter]

6 tonne altar stone at the centre of Stonehenge didn't come from Wales but the Far North of Scotland about 500 miles away:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207lqdn755o

Given that I think we didn't really understand how they got the rest of the stones from Wales this is adding another level of complication

Very impressive.



https://x.com/pittsmike/status/1823737067857400210

Really nice overview of this discovery and how the Orkneys were a massive cultic center in the Neolithic. And this was an overland journey.

[crazy canuck]

Another piece of evidence that Orkney was a main centre of Stone Age culture?

[Sheilbh]

Another piece of evidence that Orkney was a main centre of Stone Age culture?

Yeah - I think the next stage will be working out the quarry but it could be on the mainland, like Caithness. But I wonder if there is some Orcadian Stone Age culture across the far north with, as you say, Orkney was a cult centre. And also some form of communications across GB?

I believe one of the theories of Stonehenge was basically that it was built at parties/festivals (I think similar theories about the Pyramids now).

[Legbiter]

Yeah - I think the next stage will be working out the quarry but it could be on the mainland, like Caithness. But I wonder if there is some Orcadian Stone Age culture across the far north with, as you say, Orkney was a cult centre. And also some form of communications across GB?

I believe one of the theories of Stonehenge was basically that it was built at parties/festivals (I think similar theories about the Pyramids now).

yeah grooved ware pottery originated in Orkney and spread all over Late Neolithic Britain. Then came the Bell Beaker people and well...  

Grooved ware

[Jacob]

That's super interesting.

I wonder what combination of things that made the culture of the Orkney's so appealing.

[Legbiter]

That's super interesting.

I wonder what combination of things that made the culture of the Orkney's so appealing.

Orcadian war canoe thalassocracy. 

[Sheilbh]

That's super interesting.

I wonder what combination of things that made the culture of the Orkney's so appealing.

It's so weird. I don't know if it's known internationally (there's a UNESCO site) but Orkney is an amazing tourist destination.

Skara Brae which is a stone neolithic village that was uncovered in the 19th century after a massive storm - but is so human. They have little stone shelves and seats. There's toilets and a primitive stone sewer system. Right by the sea it's a stunning setting as well as amazing.

There's standing stones and and rings of stones everywhere - just as you're driving round the isles you'll see them. I'm not sure if it's the same stones but there are also Pictish symbol stones (as I say don't know if they were re-purposing neolithic standing stones or had their own). There are big underground stone cairns that you can crawl into (there's one by the cliffs that I went to as a kid and involved lying on a skateboard and pulling it through on a rope which was very exciting).

Later on but there's also lots of relatively well preserved iron age brochs that you can still walk into.

There's the odd site in these isles like Stonehenge or Newgrange. And they've got interesting landscapes around them, but you need to travel from spot to spot and if you're looking for sort of ancient sites, you're probably better almost anywhere else. Except, for some reason, Orkney - this small archipelago right off the top of GB On top of all that stuff it is also just quite pretty (like the other Atlantic islands I think - but haven't been to the rest).

Edit: And it's still being uncovered. So this is now being reburied, but in the last 20 years they've been excavating the Ness of Brodgar:


Which seems to be a sacred complex between two (contemporaneous) stone circles.

Everyone knew there was a hill there but thought it was geological until the local farmer uncovered a straight line when he was plowing his fields. But it was a set of large buildings (s believed to be ceremonial as way too big for domestic - plus it's between these two stone circles) between two sea lochs, with a large wall around it. It looks like the walls were painted though we're not sure with what and that it was in use for about 1,000 years before disappearing. And only uncovered in the last 20 years.

I think that with the standing stones and stone circles there's reason to think they were later used by Picts and Vikings as religious sites too.

[Legbiter]

A nice general overview of Neolithic Britain. The whole channel neatly summarizes the new archeogenetics and archeology concerning the prehistoric European cultural groups in layman terms.

Orkney and Stonehenge start at about 37 minutes in.

[crazy canuck]

That's super interesting.

I wonder what combination of things that made the culture of the Orkney's so appealing.

It's a while since I read the analysis of the digs going on there.  But the growing consensus seems to be that part of our issue in understanding that world is we view it through the lens of the South being the centre of things.  But we need to flip the orientation around to understand the Neolithic world.

[Josquius]

That's super interesting.

I wonder what combination of things that made the culture of the Orkney's so appealing.

It's a while since I read the analysis of the digs going on there.  But the growing consensus seems to be that part of our issue in understanding that world is we view it through the lens of the South being the centre of things.  But we need to flip the orientation around to understand the Neolithic world.

Which still leaves a big question of why.
London is the capital and biggest city of Britain for very logical geographic reasons of being on the controlling point of this large river facing south east towards Europe.
Other important places tend to have similar geographically sensible reasons behind them.
Considering we're talking a much smaller scale than cities here, what is it about Orkney that makes it so specially suited for the Neolithic world?
Or was there some illogical religious reason about north being special? (why? what?)