Young People and Politics

[Syt]

Fair enough, I was duped, but I think my point on the culture war stands. The current frontline for sexual minorities is the very definition of genders and I wouldn't be surprised if the push back against that is giving less tolerant people the perceived carte blanche to admit to opposing gay marriage as well.

The Toroto Sun didn't dupe anyone lackwit. Pinknews lied by claiming the that Sun claimed that the charity "replaced the word "cervix". The Sun did not do so.

NO medical professional should EVER use the word "front hole" to describe a cervix under any conditions. It is a pornified mockery of human anatomy.

The fact that you have Garbon and Pinknews marching to the defense of "front hole" shows that homosexuals disrespect women's bodies and gay liberation was a mistake.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[chipwich]

No substance as usual.

[crazy canuck]

My understanding wasn't that it was getting excessive deference, just that white women can be annoying and shrill

Then you were missing the context in which they were being shrill.  Remember the Karen who called the cops on the bird watcher?  Do you remember the colour of his skin?

[Tamas]

My understanding wasn't that it was getting excessive deference, just that white women can be annoying and shrill

Then you were missing the context in which they were being shrill.  Remember the Karen who called the cops on the bird watcher?  Do you remember the colour of his skin?

True. Was her complaint acted upon or proactively prevented in some way? Because that was the original discussion here, that fear of transgender reprisal in the public space is larger than fear from a random majority representative making an assinine complaint about something. The question wasn't around whether Karen is an anti-racist meme or not.

[Valmy]

The trans movement is not about being nice to trans people and you know that you dirty liar.

Oh well, you called me a name! I am convinced.

Cancer charity sorry after using 'cervix' for transgender community

The Canadian Cancer Society is apologizing for using the term "cervix" on a web page for transgender and non-binary people assigned female at birth.

As ridiculous and misguided that is, and I am sure you can find ridiculous stuff to rage at everywhere, it still comes down to "be nice to these trans men and non-binary people." Maybe that wasn't appropriate or the right way to go about it, I don't know, I don't see the tyranny. It is all semantics anyway. It isn't like they are demanding everybody call it something other than a cervix for anybody, just for themselves. And that doesn't really disprove my point, they just want to be treated well, and anyway I don't think those asking for it to be something other than a cervix with regard to themselves represent all trans and non-binary people.

Also that article is very short and lacks details and decides a few social media posts are somehow something I need to know about the topic.

[Valmy]

No substance as usual.

Maybe he should have called you a dirty liar, something to really get into the meat of the discourse like that. I take it that is what you consider substance?

NO medical professional should EVER use the word "front hole" to describe a cervix under any conditions. It is a pornified mockery of human anatomy.

Oh so tyranny is somebody else using words you don't like and freedom is that they should be forced to use terms you do like? Is that what correct?

[garbon]

My understanding wasn't that it was getting excessive deference, just that white women can be annoying and shrill

Then you were missing the context in which they were being shrill.  Remember the Karen who called the cops on the bird watcher?  Do you remember the colour of his skin?

True. Was her complaint acted upon or proactively prevented in some way? Because that was the original discussion here, that fear of transgender reprisal in the public space is larger than fear from a random majority representative making an assinine complaint about something. The question wasn't around whether Karen is an anti-racist meme or not.

Here is a selection of incident that involved someone calling in a black person who had every right to be where they were. I would think fearing for one's safety/life/dignity when confronted with the police is probably a bit more impactful than whatever zealotry you are imagining.

https://www.templelawreview.org/lawreview/assets/uploads/2020/05/Jones_92-Temp.-L.-Rev.-Online-3.pdf

On April 12, 2018, police arrested two Black men—Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson—in a Philadelphia Starbucks after the manager called the police because they were sitting in the café and asking to use the restroom without making a purchase first. Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross defended the arrest as "fair and unbiased policing," but he later apologized for the event. Nelson and Robinson settled with the city for one dollar each, and the city agreed to fund a $200,000 program for high schoolers aspiring to become entrepreneurs.164 Starbucks reached an undisclosed settlement with Nelson and Robinson, and the then-CEO formed a business mentorship with the two men. Additionally, Starbucks closed eight thousand stores on May 29, 2018, for an anti-racial-bias training.

Almost exactly a month later, a similar incident occurred at Yale University. Sarah Braasch, a white graduate student at Yale, called the police on Lolade Siyonbola, a Black graduate student at Yale, for napping in their dorm's common room. Multiple police officers questioned Lolade to verify her identity and her justification for being in the building. After some confusion about Lolade's identification listing her preferred name instead of the name in the student database, the police told her that she was free to go. Yale's administration responded by emphasizing its commitment to an inclusive environment, while also defending the officers' response to the situation.  In response to the incident, Lolade Siyonbola said, "We're constantly having to prove that we're allowed to be where we are, that we have permission—that we have freedom papers." This incident highlights how institutions of higher education are not safe from bias-motivated incidents. Unfortunately, other incidents at higher education institutions have occurred since: police questioned a Black student for eating her lunch in her university's cafeteria, campus police pulled two Native American prospective students from a college tour for being suspicious, and campus police questioned a Black university employee for looking agitated while walking to work from the on-campus gym.

Incidents of racially motivated 911 calls also follow victims to their homes. In April 2018, around 10:30 p.m., former White House staffer Darren Martin moved into an apartment in New York City. While moving in, multiple police officers responded to a call reporting a "potential break-in by someone who may have had a weapon." A half-dozen officers responded to the call. The officers questioned Martin in the lobby about what he was doing in the building, and they would not let him get his identification from his upstairs apartment. The police left after about ten to fifteen minutes, and Martin said he felt lucky that the situation ended without an altercation. Martin described, "[H]is dominant emotion was fear—of not being able to explain himself in time, of making the wrong move, of getting shot while doing absolutely nothing wrong." This incident is just one example of the countless Black people whom white people have victimized in or near their own homes. A white woman blocked a Black man, D'Arreion Toles, from entering his upscale building because she did not think he
belonged there. She subsequently called the police on Toles. A white man questioned and eventually called the police on a Black woman, Jasmine Abhulimen, for not showing identification at the pool in their private community. Unfortunately, these incidents show that no matter who you are, where you live, or how much money you make, if a white person perceives a Black person as a threat, then that person will call the police.

This issue of racially motivated 911 calls is even more problematic when considering the history and effects of policing and the resulting trauma for Black people. As discussed above, in some jurisdictions, the police must respond to every 911 call. Thus, racially motivated 911 calls unnecessarily increase interactions between the police and Black people. Even if a Black person is not arrested, assaulted, or killed, police interactions can cause trauma. Racial trauma or race-based traumatic stress "may result from racial harassment, witnessing racial violence, or experiencing institutional racism." In the context of a racially motivated 911 call, the interaction with the police requires the victim to justify their presence in a white space, and this requirement can make the victim feel less human. In the moment, this can cause a stress response of increased blood pressure, increased heart rate, and a release of cortisol (a stress hormone).

[garbon]

Was her complaint acted upon or proactively prevented in some way?

Remember her phrasing. It was predicated on what she and the black man knew about how such things would typically be treated. That they had both left before the police arrived doesn't negate the realities that made those words threatening.

"I'm calling the cops ... I'm gonna tell them there's an African American man threatening my life"

[chipwich]

Anyone who doesn't see "front hole" as patently offensive to life is completely morally degraded.

[crazy canuck]

Was her complaint acted upon or proactively prevented in some way?

Remember her phrasing. It was predicated on what she and the black man knew about how such things would typically be treated. That they had both left before the police arrived doesn't negate the realities that made those words threatening.

"I'm calling the cops ... I'm gonna tell them there's an African American man threatening my life"

Yes, and she was later arrested and fired for making a false police complaint.

The point being that she was confident she could make a completely false complaint which would be believed because she was a White woman, and he was a Black man.

[Razgovory]

Someone saying "front hole" is fairly light tyranny.  I admit it sounds stupid, but it is 2024.

[Tamas]

OK but what are we arguing for with the evidences of rampant racism? My claim was that potential complaints coming from the transgender community are more likely to trigger preemptive mitigation (such as this misquoted cervix thing) than complaints from non-minorities.

I am sure that's true for racism as well in the sense of for example people not hiring blacks to positions where they expect that would upset their racist clientele. But while that's infinitely more incidous, it also feels different to preemptively make sure you explain why you have to use heretical words such as cervix.

[garbon]

OK but what are we arguing for with the evidences of rampant racism? My claim was that potential complaints coming from the transgender community are more likely to trigger preemptive mitigation (such as this misquoted cervix thing) than complaints from non-minorities.

I am sure that's true for racism as well in the sense of for example people not hiring blacks to positions where they expect that would upset their racist clientele. But while that's infinitely more incidous, it also feels different to preemptively make sure you explain why you have to use heretical words such as cervix.

My examples of racist complaints were those with more meaningful and negative consequences than hypothetical complaints that caused a charity to put a disclaimer on its facts sheet.

Apropos nothing, I will soon be creating a survey for the LGBTQIA community to ask about health matters. I will be including some disclaimer language not because I fear reprisal or company reputational damage but because I want to encourage participation from the broadest base of people.

[crazy canuck]

It is your spin, and that of the right wing media, to characterize cervix as heretical.

What point are you really trying to make?

[Tamas]

It is your spin, and that of the right wing media, to characterize cervix as heretical.

What point are you really trying to make?

I have already made it: that my impression is that (online spaces at least) are too sensitive to the zealous fringe of trans right activists. I am sure the overwhelming majority of trans men have no trouble doctors referring to their cervix as "cervix" - I am having a hard time imagining that adults would rebel against biology like that. So, having a disclaimer that they know the non-offensive way to say that is "front hole" they are just not doing so for simplicity, feels like an overreaction. A type of overreaction that I feel like I have seen (or seen referenced) too much either the pre-emptive mitigation or the mini-scandals emerging from the lack of it.

However, all of that could have been far-right influence so I am not really interested in defending this point too vehemently. Either I am wrong in which case I shouldn't defend it, or I am right that this has taken quasi-religious connotations in some circles, in which case I'll do what people in history have done before to let ridiculous zealotry thrive, and shut up rather than spend further effort.