Quo Vadis GOP?

[The Larch]

One has to wonder what is it that they were trying to achieve with that tweet. 

[grumbler]

Democrat Josh Harder:

(snip)

 

Indeed, the GOP is the only group of people who understand that no food comes from any coastal state.

[Syt]

https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-city/2023/02/02/utah-schools-financial-literacy-superior-capitalism

Utah schools could be required to tout "superior" U.S. capitalism

Utah high schoolers would be required to learn about the "superiority" of American free markets under new guidelines the state school board is considering this week.

Driving the news: Teachers would have to "explain why free market systems are superior and have made America the most free and prosperous country in the world" under new standards proposed for financial literacy courses.

All students are required to take the class to graduate from public high schools in Utah.
The big picture: The claims in the proposed standards are controversial among economists, social scientists and the public.

While polling suggests most Americans think the country is "among" the greatest, only a small minority believe it's the best. Nearly 60 countries got higher "freedom" ratings under the Freedom House Index, and the nation ranked 20th for prosperity, according to the investment firm Legatum.

Half of Americans surveyed by Pew in 2020 said the U.S. economic system needed "major" changes, and while "free enterprise" is popular, multiple polls indicate enthusiasm for capitalism is declining.

Of note: Many economists say that America is not truly a "free market" economy, pointing to limits created both by government regulation and corporate monopolies.

Between the lines: Those disagreements are what conservative State Board of Education member Natalie Cline said she wanted to elide by adding the provision in a January committee meeting.

Cline pointed to a state law requiring civics classes to teach "the benefits of a free enterprise system."
The addition will "make sure ... [students] walk away without any question in their mind, regardless of how it might have been presented ... that this is the superior system," Cline said.

Details: Under state law, the board must review statewide standards for financial literacy courses every three years.

Current guidelines, adopted in 2019, only require students to learn how different economic systems affect growth and don't address the "superiority" of any one system.

What they're saying: "It feels like ... telling students what to believe ... rather than helping them understand our free market and why it's beneficial to Americans," said Democrat Sarah Reale, who represents Salt Lake City on the board and has taught political science at Salt Lake Community College.

Reale, the only member who voted against the measure in committee, described it as "a statement that could be considered opinion."

Catch up quick: Utah's financial literacy classes, which the Legislature began requiring in 2007, have drawn scrutiny for outdated advice and occasional forays into non-financial, personal subject matter.

Salt Lake City students in 2017 received checklists of gender-specific dating advice, exhorting girls to "be feminine and lady-like."

A few months later, students in Roy were given "purity tests" in the class, with points for French kissing, having an abortion or answering yes when asked: "Even though you are straight, would you go kinky to see what it's like?"

What's next: The board could approve the new standards as early as Thursday.

[The Larch]

"Go kinky" 

[The Brain]

What's the connection between straight/non-straight and kinky/non-kinky?

[ulmont]

What's the connection between straight/non-straight and kinky/non-kinky?

Not much, at least per Pansy Division: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DFRjyJgXIY

[Valmy]

Yeah Texas has requirements to make sure the students know Christian Western Capitalistic Civilization is objectively best.

[Barrister]

Yeah Texas has requirements to make sure the students know Christian Western Capitalistic Civilization is objectively best.

So I mean I think it's okay to teach that liberty and freedom are objectively good and superior.  These are concepts embedded in the founding of the USA after all.  And since economic freedom, like freedom to contract and freedom to own property, is an intrinsic part of those freedoms, teaching that capitalism is superior to other economic systems also seems also okay.

"Western Civilization" is tricky.  Ideas of individual liberty are certainly tied up with the enlightenment, english common law, and the like - all based from Western Europe.  Those ideas are not exclusive to western europe of course, but to a certain limited extent teaching that "western civilization" is better is probably okay.  It's fraught with pitfalls though, as you don't want to start saying that other aspects of western civilization are necessarily superior - as that can quickly run smack-dab into racism.

"Christian" of course is right out.

[Oexmelin]

That would make for remarkably mediocre teaching.

[The Larch]

That would make for remarkably mediocre teaching.

If you assume that they want teaching rather than indoctrination.

[Razgovory]

That would make for remarkably mediocre teaching.

They'll leave it up to the football coach.

[Barrister]

That would make for remarkably mediocre teaching.

I don't think so.

The couple of examples that come to mind were religion class in my jesuit high school, and some of my law school classes. At the end of the day the teacher/professor had a definite opinion and point of view on certain issues, but all sides were taught and analyzed.

[Oexmelin]

Were those lessons mandated by the state, too?

[Barrister]

Were those lessons mandated by the state, too?

High school religion class, no.

Law school constitutional law class?  Yes - if you want to be a lawyer.  And there the example is worse as the professor I was thinking of was an ex-communist, so was very much let you know his own personal opinion.

But let's think of the US.  The very words of the Declaration of Independence was that "all men are created equal".  I have zero issue with the state mandating that people, in fact, be taught that "all men are created equal".  Or to be taught that freedom of speech is an important value.  These are concepts important to the entire idea of the USA.

Or Canada - our country was founded on the principles of "the supremacy of God and the rule of law".  I think the state can teach as a positive value about the importance of the rule of law and the supremacy of God.


The thing is - those positive values I'm talking about go a lot less far than apparently Utah and Texas curriculums want to go.

[Jacob]

It's a bit of a stretch to claim that "capitalism [subtext, as it exists in the US today] is the pinnacle of individual and economic freedom," and that's what seems to be state mandated.