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Quo Vadis GOP?

Started by Syt, January 09, 2021, 07:46:24 AM

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Admiral Yi

Quote from: DGuller on December 28, 2022, 12:29:34 PM:huh: You're not that kind of a person at all. :unsure:

Thanks.

I meant I am exactly as you see me.  The Larch is free to think I'm a piece of shit.

The Minsky Moment

What if Abbot and DeSantis announced a new state program that migrants would be offered the opportunity to enter into seven-year contracts of indentured servitude, the completion of which would entitle them to residency in the state?  Of course, this would be prohibited by the 13th Amendment.  But if the legal objection could be waived, and the migrants agreed to the contract, would there be any basis to object?  Consent trumps all?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Admiral Yi

#2117
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2022, 12:45:56 PMWhat if Abbot and DeSantis announced a new state program that migrants would be offered the opportunity to enter into seven-year contracts of indentured servitude, the completion of which would entitle them to residency in the state?  Of course, this would be prohibited by the 13th Amendment.  But if the legal objection could be waived, and the migrants agreed to the contract, would there be any basis to object?  Consent trumps all?

I believe consent trumps all.  Obama's proposed immigration reform bill included a path to citizenship conditional on, as one option, service in the military.  The military offers education at a service academy in exchange for a fixed period of service.  It also offers free medical school on the same terms.  What is that if not indentured servitude?

edit: Although the right to residency in a given state is a nothingburger.  If you have the legal right to reside in the US you have the legal right to reside anywhere in the US.  If you don't you don't.

grumbler

I am not sure why Yi assumes that, barring conclusive evidence to the contrary, people who end up in a shitty situation gave their informed consent to be shat upon. 

My assumption (and, I think, the rational assumption) is that they didn't, and Yi has produced exactly zero evidence that they did give informed consent.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

OttoVonBismarck

Yi has generally never produced evidence for anything he says on these boards, it's his "style", he is big on asking others to do research he either lacks the ability or willingness to do himself.

Gups

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2022, 12:52:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2022, 12:45:56 PMWhat if Abbot and DeSantis announced a new state program that migrants would be offered the opportunity to enter into seven-year contracts of indentured servitude, the completion of which would entitle them to residency in the state?  Of course, this would be prohibited by the 13th Amendment.  But if the legal objection could be waived, and the migrants agreed to the contract, would there be any basis to object?  Consent trumps all?

I believe consent trumps all.  Obama's proposed immigration reform bill included a path to citizenship conditional on, as one option, service in the military.  The military offers education at a service academy in exchange for a fixed period of service.  It also offers free medical school on the same terms.  What is that if not indentured servitude?

edit: Although the right to residency in a given state is a nothingburger.  If you have the legal right to reside in the US you have the legal right to reside anywhere in the US.  If you don't you don't.

There's a difference between consent when you have other options and consent when you don't.


OttoVonBismarck

The refugee resettlement process that already exists also moves people to other states to share the burden. As Minsky mentioned, there is no good faith reason for the ancillary spending to randomly ship people deliberately with no coordination with refugee orgs at the destination, it is done purely to cause harm and to generate drama. It is an inherently deceptive and immoral activity.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Gups on December 28, 2022, 04:45:44 PMThere's a difference between consent when you have other options and consent when you don't.



Surely.  Insofar as if you have no other options consent is meaningless.  We all die at some point whether we consent or not.  Consenting to die at some point is meaningless.

Syt

I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Razgovory

So long as he's cold and dead.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Sheilbh

Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2023, 03:53:47 AM
Moving to a flat with an electric cooker is stressful enough, and now Syt's found my alt account :weep:
Let's bomb Russia!

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Syt

Yes, but turning them into another battleground in the Culture Wars is ridiculous. Guess it's a good thing that lead paint and asbestos in everything were abandoned before today's hyperpolarization. :P
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

The Larch

Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2023, 07:27:31 AMYes, but turning them into another battleground in the Culture Wars is ridiculous. Guess it's a good thing that lead paint and asbestos in everything were abandoned before today's hyperpolarization. :P

Regarding culture wars and home appliances, it's funny how Trump ranted during his whole presidency about how toilet flushing was terrible nowadays and absolutely nobody followed him on that and now an unfounded rumour about gas stoves has the rabid sector of the GOP up in arms.  :lol:

Grey Fox

Quote from: Sheilbh on January 13, 2023, 07:06:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2023, 03:53:47 AM
Moving to a flat with an electric cooker is stressful enough, and now Syt's found my alt account :weep:

Be patient and use a lower settings if your cooker is of poor quality.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.