Path of Exile - upcoming F2P Daiablo clone

[frunk]

D3's not a bad game, it just got stale for me a lot quicker than PoE.  Chris Wilson is right that Sets make itemization a lot less interesting.

[Syt]

D3's not a bad game, it just got stale for me a lot quicker than PoE.  Chris Wilson is right that Sets make itemization a lot less interesting.

Agreed on that. Though POE leans into the other extreme with heavy randomization of equipment items and crafting. I feel there could be a middle ground between chasing pre-defined items sets and chasing the elusive roll of the dice.

(I will say I'm glad that POE meta builds have largely shifted away from "must have" uniques that enable a build - most of the time rares will be better if crafted with the "right" mods.)

[frunk]

Agreed on that. Though POE leans into the other extreme with heavy randomization of equipment items and crafting. I feel there could be a middle ground between chasing pre-defined items sets and chasing the elusive roll of the dice.

(I will say I'm glad that POE meta builds have largely shifted away from "must have" uniques that enable a build - most of the time rares will be better if crafted with the "right" mods.)

Yeah, I can't stand PoE's crafting system.  Fortunately you can still do pretty well without fully engaging with it.
 I think that was why Harvest being toned down is kicking up such a big fuss, it was the way around the mess that is the rest of the system.

[Syt]

Yeah, I can't stand PoE's crafting system.  Fortunately you can still do pretty well without fully engaging with it.
 I think that was why Harvest being toned down is kicking up such a big fuss, it was the way around the mess that is the rest of the system.

Agreed. The prices for harvest crafts now are hilarious, running in the hundreds if not thousands for reasonably valuable (but not crazy) crafts. I did a harvest earlier today, tier 4 blue map. I got 68 of crafting currency.

My crafting is limited to rolling essences, occasional alchs or binding orbs, and on really nice bases I might go the route blue/reroll/regal. Rarely using fossils because I can't really be bothered with Delve, but there's fortunately other ways of getting them.

But at the end of the day it's all rolling the dice. You might get the blue item you want, put a regal on it, and then have to start over, because you got a useless or low tier mod. It's sad enough that you basically need a site like Craft of Exile to figure out what kind of item base etc. you need to have a (tiny) chance to roll a certain modifier. "You need this kind of item base, minimum X item level, and it needs to be a Shaper item" or something along those lines.

[FunkMonk]

Yeah, it is that sort of stuff that attracted me to the game years ago but now I just don't have the time or motivation to meticulously plan out crafts and I'm just tired of having to trade.

D3 is much simpler and at this point in my life I just have an hour or two at most at night to play a video game. I want to use that time playing the game, not sitting in my hideout trying to trade for a 100+ life roll, 90 total resistance, mark on hit glove or the unique I need for a build. And getting destroyed by random rares with 3 or 4 Archnemesis mods gets old pretty quickly since they often zoom across the screen and explode me with little warning.

There are other solid or great ARPGs. Last Epoch is a cool indie ARPG which is fun in spurts. And the Diablo 2 mod Project Diablo 2 is probably the best ARPG I've ever played.

[Syt]

For me it's just making things too complicated. I treat POE mostly as an idle clicker while listening to podcasts or audio books. Now, after 2500 hours or so I have a decent muscle memory that I can do most stuff on instinct and only really have to focus when comparing items that are marginally different, check my resistances when getting new gear etc. or run into a new boss.

But I know that I'm likely the exception, and most players will be more focused on the actual gameplay.

[FunkMonk]

Yeah, and it's the actual gameplay that was always the weakest part of POE to me. Now that I just don't have time or inclination for the other parts of the game, it's lost a lot of its original appeal.

I still love POE, but until the GGG figures out what it wants the game to be, I don't think I'll be playing it as much. Or maybe they have figured it out and it's just not the kind of game I want to play anymore.

[Iormlund]

For me it's just making things too complicated. I treat POE mostly as an idle clicker while listening to podcasts or audio books. Now, after 2500 hours or so I have a decent muscle memory that I can do most stuff on instinct and only really have to focus when comparing items that are marginally different, check my resistances when getting new gear etc. or run into a new boss.

But I know that I'm likely the exception, and most players will be more focused on the actual gameplay.

Not really. If retention data is any indication, most people prefer zooming through maps without a care over hard content.

Personally I love the slow pace of early game (like the dreaded Mud Flats). But I know I'm in the minority.

I still love POE, but until the GGG figures out what it wants the game to be, I don't think I'll be playing it as much. Or maybe they have figured it out and it's just not the kind of game I want to play anymore.

Chris knows what he wants it to be. He has said repeatedly that he likes slow paced games and random, incredibly rare loot.

GGG's problem is that their audience HATES that. Especially whales.

[Syt]

I would buy the "we want slower gameplay" line from GGG more if they didn't have so many league mechanics that are built around killing enemies fast.

[FunkMonk]

For me it's just making things too complicated. I treat POE mostly as an idle clicker while listening to podcasts or audio books. Now, after 2500 hours or so I have a decent muscle memory that I can do most stuff on instinct and only really have to focus when comparing items that are marginally different, check my resistances when getting new gear etc. or run into a new boss.

But I know that I'm likely the exception, and most players will be more focused on the actual gameplay.

Not really. If retention data is any indication, most people prefer zooming through maps without a care over hard content.

Personally I love the slow pace of early game (like the dreaded Mud Flats). But I know I'm in the minority.

I still love POE, but until the GGG figures out what it wants the game to be, I don't think I'll be playing it as much. Or maybe they have figured it out and it's just not the kind of game I want to play anymore.

Chris knows what he want's it to be. He has said repeatedly that he likes slow paced games and random, incredibly rare loot.

GGG's problem is that their audience HATES that. Especially whales.

Chris has also mentioned he listens to his team and if the team as a whole decides on something he goes with them. It's hard to say how much of the game is Chris implementing his vision or the team overruling Chris. But that's neither here nor there.

I enjoy the slow pace of the initial acts too, as well as the glacial pace the game was originally back in 2013 or whatever. The game became quite easy and turned into a zoom fest over time. Now they want to turn back the clock and I don't think that is good idea because the game is now a mishmash of philosophies from different eras of it's development. It's a bit all over the place now and they've trapped themselves.

I imagine this turn is the set up to fold the game into POE 2. That's great but GGG really dropped the ball in terms of managing expectations.

[frunk]

[Syt]

 

[FunkMonk]

Looks like slower and more meaningful gameplay is finally happening.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3320651

Ruthless (previously codenamed "Hard Mode") is an additional character creation flag alongside Hardcore and Solo Self-Found that allows you to opt-in to extreme item scarcity and various other changes. This article explains some of the major changes, the release timeline, and how you can sign up for Alpha testing if you're interested.

This article is not a set of patch notes. Only significant changes are described, but without numerical detail. There are a lot of other small changes that aren't covered here, but this article should give you a decent overall impression of Ruthless.

What Ruthless is not
Ruthless is not for everyone. If you don't like the sound of it, then it's probably best you continue playing the regular Path of Exile modes. It's like Hardcore or Solo Self-found. Some players really enjoy the additional constraints as a way of enhancing their game experience. Many players do not, and that's okay.

Ruthless is not a replacement for regular Path of Exile. It's a challenging mode for a specific type of player. A change being made in Ruthless is not an indication that we will make that change in the regular game. In fact, if we felt a particular change was good for the regular game, we'd just make it there to benefit everyone.

Ruthless is not monetised any differently. You can play it for free and your existing microtransactions will work in it.

Ruthless is not consuming significant development resources. It's a pet project that some senior designers have been working on in their spare time over the last 18 months.

What Ruthless is
Ruthless is a mode about friction, tension and anticipation. It's brutally difficult, but overcoming that difficulty feels highly rewarding. In a world where your items are far below par, every item drop has the potential to be the breakthrough one you need.

Ruthless is a mode that re-imagines traditional understanding of where Path of Exile's endgame is. It redefines the entire game as the endgame. Even reaching higher campaign acts, let alone maps, is an achievement. Traditionally weak items are suddenly very valuable. High level characters and good rare items infer immense bragging rights.

Ruthless is a mode where you barely find any items. You might get to act four without equipping a pair of rings. But each ring you find represents a huge power boost.

Ruthless is a mode where most items are normal rarity. You don't see a lot of magic items, and even fewer rare items. But finding a rare item of a base type you're looking for feels amazing.

Ruthless is a mode where you find very little crafting currency. You might only find one Orb of Alchemy throughout the whole campaign. But that orb lets you convert any base type of your choice to a rare item.

Ruthless is nostalgic. We picked the name partly because it was what the third of four difficulty levels was called back in closed beta. Aspects like item scarcity and support gems being valuable really feel like the early days of Path of Exile, just without desync.

Item Scarcity
The core Ruthless experience is that you don't have strong enough items to handle the content. Every item that drops has the potential to be an upgrade to your current gear.

In Ruthless, the quantity of items dropped has been massively reduced throughout all game content.

The rate of finding magic, rare and unique items has been massively reduced throughout all game content.

Rings, Amulets and Belts are much rarer than in regular Path of Exile. They cannot be purchased from Vendors.

Most league reward systems have been changed to only grant item rewards that are specific to that league (for example, Cluster Jewels only come from Delirium), plus items from the core drop pool. In Ruthless, getting items from the core drop pool is a valuable reward, especially when there is an item rarity bonus.

Many deterministic items like Divination Cards or Oni-Goroshi cannot be obtained. Many bosses like Atziri that guarantee unique drops still do, but are often harder to access.

Limited Crafting
In Ruthless, most of your items come from killing monsters. It's hard to find magic, rare and unique items, and it's even harder to craft them. Crafting is a powerful luxury that you'll have to use sparingly for the right items.

The drop rate of crafting currency items has been massively decreased.

The rate at which you receive shards of crafting currency when vendoring items has been decreased.

Master crafting is not available. The crafting bench cannot be accessed and recipe plinths cannot be found.

Veiled Chaos Orbs, Orbs of Binding, Orbs of Dominance, Influenced Exalted Orbs and Awakener's Orbs cannot be obtained.

When an Influenced Item is reforged or the Influenced Mod is removed, its influence is lost.

Most vendor recipes are not available. A few new Ruthless-specific vendor recipes have been introduced.

Skill and Support Gem Changes
In Ruthless, Skill Gem drops matter. Support Gem drops matter a whole lot.

Gems cannot be purchased from vendors.

The Fixture of Fate and Death and Rebirth quests each award you a token that can be traded to Siosa for any Skill Gem of level 31 or lower.

Support Gems can only be found as random drops. You cannot obtain them deterministically. Ruthless is a league of item scarcity. When items are scarce, they are exciting to find, exciting to look for and exciting to trade. We are defining Support Gems as items. This means some builds are harder to assemble, and careful planning is needed by SSF Ruthless players.

Gems gain far less experience than they do in regular Path of Exile. It's a lot harder to level your skills up, which is another axis of reduced character power in Ruthless. A melee character's damage comes from their weapon. Spellcasters get a lot of their damage from their gems as they level up. This change helps reduce the power gap between these two playstyles that is otherwise exacerbated by item scarcity in Ruthless. It also means that when you're farming an area for item drops, you can grind for gem experience at the same time.

Almost all movement skills are not available in Ruthless. In this mode, movement skills trivialise game systems that matter a lot more, such as terrain layout, monster body blocking, and actual level traversal.

Here is a full list of movement skills that are not available in Ruthless: Dash, Frostblink, Flame Dash, Lightning Warp, Leap Slam, Shield Charge, Whirling Blades, Blink Arrow, Smoke Mine, Bodyswap and Charged Dash. Venom Gyre relies on Whirling Blades and is hence also not available.

Additional Changes
Ruthless is challenging and punitive. It contains a number of changes that make Path of Exile harder and allow skilled players to differentiate themselves from everyone else.

A compounding character experience penalty applies from level 68 onwards. It takes a lot of investment to achieve a high-level Ruthless character.

Item drops are not allocated to specific party members. Looting is entirely free-for-all. Items really matter. Better pick them up before someone else does.

Flasks and Life/Mana are not restored upon entering town or your hideout. Vendors that sell Flasks (and Helena in your hideout) can refill them for you. This disincentivises the strategy of using Portal Scrolls as an instant full heal.

Onslaught does not grant movement speed in Ruthless. This relates to the absence of movement skills.

If you die near a quest boss in the campaign, a chunk of its life is recovered.

Hardcore Ruthless characters are not migrated to Standard Ruthless upon death. They are just permanently dead.

Utility Flasks can not gain charges while active and have lower duration than they do in regular Path of Exile.

Scarabs only enable mechanics in a map. They do not scale in power with their tiers. Instead, higher tiers of Scarabs are needed for higher tiers of map. Winged Scarabs do not exist.

There's a Ruthless-specific Atlas Passive Skill Tree.

Content from past leagues is encountered less often than in regular Path of Exile.

You do not accumulate free daily Atlas Missions.

Vaal Side Areas, Enkindling Orbs and Instilling Orbs do not exist in Ruthless.

Ruthless uses separate item filter files which must be created specifically for it. If players used regular Path of Exile ones then they would filter out items that are actually very useful in Ruthless.

Alpha Testing
We're running a small-scale Alpha test for Ruthless and are looking to recruit some players from the community. We're very interested in getting gameplay feedback from players who love the sound of everything Ruthless embodies, so if this is you, please fill out this form. We'll pick some waves of players to be added over the next few weeks. This Alpha is based on 3.19 and we do not allow streaming or distribution of footage from the initial version of this Alpha. We will likely allow streaming at some stage before release, but will let you know. Please limit discussion of Ruthless Alpha testing to the relevant discord server until the NDA is lifted.

Release Timeline
We expect to publicly release Ruthless alongside the 3.20 expansion in December. The first league with Ruthless active will still be deemed a bit of a Beta Test, and hence we will not be afraid of making mid-league adjustments to Ruthless, which is something we try to avoid doing in the regular game. Challenges will not be enabled in Ruthless in 3.20.

Ruthless will launch as an additional character creation flag. We will support all permutations of Hardcore/SSF/Ruthless, as each combination targets a different type of player. Some people will play Hardcore Ruthless for the ultimate adrenaline rush. Some people will play SSF Ruthless because they want to demonstrate mastery of Path of Exile's item progression. Some people will play with all three modes turned on because they can.

Ruthless is a mode where you aren't expected to get to maps. Even if you do get to maps, you're probably not going to reach red maps. If you somehow get there, how will you sustain them with such little access to currency? Will anyone manage to kill pinnacle bosses? Will anyone even see an Uber pinnacle boss? We're very excited to see how this experiment plays out.

Or maybe just tedious and boring? I guess we'll see.

[frunk]

It sounds interesting except for the severe limitations on gem availability.  Jack up the prices on gems or make them more difficult to get, sure.  Make them unavailable except for random drops, no thanks.

[crazy canuck]

Like they said, this is not for everyone, but this is exactly the thing I was hoping for.  The game in its current form is simply a loot race.  I miss the original game when the first boss fight was a real challenge, and you could easily die to trash if you were not careful.