The problems with the activist left

[Sheilbh]

I think it depends where you are - can't really think of many, if any, times the Tories have claimed the moral high ground

[Tonitrus]

Do they take the immoral high ground instead? 

I suppose, in a very simplistic way..."we're right and you're wrong" is a moral high ground. 

[Sheilbh]

I suppose it varies over time but I don't think they've ever really made a moral pitch - Labour very much has ("a moral crusade or it is nothing"). The Tory line is normally that it might be nice to live in that world, but we can't afford it - or that they're administering medicine we might not enjoy, but need.

The Tory pitch is basically in one way or another normally competence that ends with a series of scandals; Labour's is doing the right thing but ends in an economic crisis.

[viper37]

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.

Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Eh?
I don't understand.

" Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame."

Wich part of my post led you to write that then, if not that?

[Josquius]

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.

Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Eh?
I don't understand.

" Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame."

Wich part of my post led you to write that then, if not that?

Virtuous, when they pretend to be the only virtuous ones, I would expect so...

You seem to be implying any virtue is fake whilst they do the same as the right but for different groups.

[crazy canuck]

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.

Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Unlike say the fundamentalist Christian Right?

[Berkut]

"Damn, I just don't understand how the progressives and the left loses so much! We represent the views of the majority of people, and yet the fucking crazy right wingers still win so many elections and get so much power? How is that so???"

People point out all kinds of things that the left does to shoot themselves in the foot from embrace of cancel culture, identity politics, inability to effectively use power when they have it, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., fucking ETC.

"NOOOOOOOO! THAT CANNOT BE! THAT IS JUST RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA AND LIES LIES LIES! THE LEFT DOESN"T DO NOTHING WRONG!"

This entire thing is hopeless. I am going to try to adopt George Carlins view on politics and the human condition.

[The Minsky Moment]

It's a free country, Berkut, it's always going to be true that there will be zealots in a party that act or talk in a way that turns people off.  That goes both ways, for every Chesa Boudin there is a Ken Paxton (and that is grossly unfair to Boudin who may be a little nutty but isn't an outright crook).  If anything, the Democrats and their primary voters seem to do a better job of weeding out their extremists than the Republicans do.

[Berkut]

It's a free country, Berkut, it's always going to be true that there will be zealots in a party that act or talk in a way that turns people off.  That goes both ways, for every Chesa Boudin there is a Ken Paxton (and that is grossly unfair to Boudin who may be a little nutty but isn't an outright crook).  If anything, the Democrats and their primary voters seem to do a better job of weeding out their extremists than the Republicans do.

Not at all what I am talking about.

[crazy canuck]

"Damn, I just don't understand how the progressives and the left loses so much! We represent the views of the majority of people, and yet the fucking crazy right wingers still win so many elections and get so much power? How is that so???"

People point out all kinds of things that the left does to shoot themselves in the foot from embrace of cancel culture, identity politics, inability to effectively use power when they have it, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., fucking ETC.

"NOOOOOOOO! THAT CANNOT BE! THAT IS JUST RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA AND LIES LIES LIES! THE LEFT DOESN"T DO NOTHING WRONG!"

This entire thing is hopeless. I am going to try to adopt George Carlins view on politics and the human condition.

And then there are some who tend to be engage in hyperbole from time to time.

[Jacob]

While it's obviously interesting to diagnose the the various problems of the activist left - and a hugely enjoyable activity for some - I personally think a better use of time is figuring out what action you can take to improve things. And I don't mean in a moral superiority way - "this thing is bad and I'm not doing it, so I'm one of the good guys" - but in an organizational way, even if on a small level.

"We're fucked, and it's because those other people are idiots" is not, I don't think, going to make a difference for the better. In fact in my experience it's a pretty effective technique to derail progress.

Taking positive action of whatever kind, linking up with like-minded individuals, attempting to influence the political process, helping those who need help, persuading those who can be persuaded, finding ways to encourage those who need encouragement, influencing the political process through active participation, and encouraging more people like you to do the same - those things are all hard work, often thankless, but also what actually makes the difference in the long run.

Insofar as the activist left has a problem it's that too few people are doing that, and too many people are focused on how those other people are terrible.

There's a bit too, I think, where the right wing media machine is very very good at finding flaws, inconsistencies, and tension points and magnifying and them massively as wedge points. And where there are no real flaws, inventing them. But while that is a problem, there's little to nothing the Left can do about it, so there's not much use in dwelling on the subject.

[Josquius]

"Damn, I just don't understand how the progressives and the left loses so much! We represent the views of the majority of people, and yet the fucking crazy right wingers still win so many elections and get so much power? How is that so???"

People point out all kinds of things that the left does to shoot themselves in the foot from embrace of cancel culture, identity politics, inability to effectively use power when they have it, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., fucking ETC.

"NOOOOOOOO! THAT CANNOT BE! THAT IS JUST RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA AND LIES LIES LIES! THE LEFT DOESN"T DO NOTHING WRONG!"

This entire thing is hopeless. I am going to try to adopt George Carlins view on politics and the human condition.

I don't see any of that on this thread.

As to questioning right wing takes on the problems of the left - that doesn't mean the left is perfect. Merely that the problems are different.

[Berkut]

[viper37]

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.

Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Unlike say the fundamentalist Christian Right?

I had Quebec and Canada in mind, they're not exactly a political force to be reckoned with.  But Trudeau's using the same codes: "think of the children" to defend all his crazyness.

[crazy canuck]

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.

Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Unlike say the fundamentalist Christian Right?

I had Quebec and Canada in mind, they're not exactly a political force to be reckoned with.  But Trudeau's using the same codes: "think of the children" to defend all his crazyness.

I don't know about Quebec, but in Canada they are in some regions and particularly influential within the Conservative party.