The Real problem with cancel culture

[Jacob]

My guess, Sheilbh, is that some of the participants refused to play ball when it came to keep or bring it in-house.

[grumbler]

I meant it's madness in that the entire situation just got wildly out of hand. I think this is also an overreaction just as Weigel's suspension was.

The reason it got wildly out of hand is that Sonmez told her bosses to fuck off when they repeatedly told her to stop publicly attacking fellow employees.  I think that a one-month suspension would have been a better move, with the lifting of the suspension conditional on her agreeing to not attack Post employees publicly.

[chipwich]

I meant it's madness in that the entire situation just got wildly out of hand. I think this is also an overreaction just as Weigel's suspension was.

The reason it got wildly out of hand is that Sonmez told her bosses to fuck off when they repeatedly told her to stop publicly attacking fellow employees.  I think that a one-month suspension would have been a better move, with the lifting of the suspension conditional on her agreeing to not attack Post employees publicly.

I can't think of any other job where publicly attacking a co-worker and telling the boss to fuck off when warned about it would not result in immediate termination.

[crazy canuck]

I meant it's madness in that the entire situation just got wildly out of hand. I think this is also an overreaction just as Weigel's suspension was.

The reason it got wildly out of hand is that Sonmez told her bosses to fuck off when they repeatedly told her to stop publicly attacking fellow employees.  I think that a one-month suspension would have been a better move, with the lifting of the suspension conditional on her agreeing to not attack Post employees publicly.

Yeah, she probably made a clearly insubordinate statement along those lines.  Otherwise it would have been very risky to terminate.

[grumbler]

I can't think of any other job where publicly attacking a co-worker and telling the boss to fuck off when warned about it would not result in immediate termination.

I can think of many jobs where management might understand that a valuable employee has simply lost emotional control and would rather salvage the valuable employee rather than terminating them.  We don't know enough to say whether this was a possibility here or not, but on the surface it seems like this was not the behavior Sonmez usually exhibited. 

[chipwich]

valuable employee

There are lots of journalists who are suited to replace her.

[FunkMonk]

Considering her recent turbulent history with the Post I'm fairly sure they were looking for a chance to let her go at some point. I don't think they imagined it quite like this though 

Anyway, she got like 112k followers on Twitter. She has a big brand now. She'll be fine.

[Josquius]

Anyway, she got like 112k followers on Twitter. She has a big brand now. She'll be fine.

Is that a lot?

I'm not a big twitter person. But by YouTube standards that's... Decent. Good beer money numbers. But not something to make a full time career or be particularly well known off.

Seems very impressive for a random person but not for someone whose job is to be read.

[Eddie Teach]

I dunno, there are youtubers with 40k followers who post daily, I'd assume it's their main job.

[Berkut]

Are there many examples of people's freedom to speak being majorly impacted by "cancellations"? I have yet to see anyone forced to censor themselves unless they really want to use racist rhetoric without consequences. Heck, many of those "cancelled" are ranting about it in major national media - doesn't seem their freedom of speech was impacted at all.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/campus-free-speech-self-censorship/661282/?utm_medium=social&utm_term=2022-06-16T11%3A01%3A56&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&fbclid=IwAR3QdmTJ5Jgavne-Hf5PgpEfg-RG7o5v7vayHTDXq5B7iZuo69sHEAMV5K4

But the same study also reflects the impression I got from talking with countless students: Although they are keen to discuss big ideas, many fear doing so. Nearly two-thirds of those surveyed agreed that "the climate on my campus prevents some people from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive." This was a significant increase compared with the first time a pollster asked the question, in 2019.

Other recent studies show that students don't just worry that their classmates might self-censor; a great many do so themselves. According to a large-scale survey by the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, four out of 10 students around the country said that they would feel uncomfortable expressing views about "a controversial political topic to other students during a discussion in a common campus space, such as a quad, dining hall, or lounge." Nearly six out of 10 said that they would hesitate to publicly disagree with a professor. More than eight out of 10 reported self-censoring at least some of the time. "Though I hold liberal views," one student at Stony Brook University told the pollsters, "in some topics my views are more conservative and I'm afraid of being labeled something I am clearly not."

[Berkut]

The bold is my own, since it directly reflects exactly how I feel, and precisely what happens right her on Languish every single time this issue comes up.

To a great degree, though, the problem lies outside the classroom. Many students have seen classmates shamed and ostracized after they were "called out" on social media for something supposedly offensive. They know that the small minority of their classmates who enjoy acting as ideological enforcers has outsize power. And they see that their colleges often add fuel to the fire by investigating students for saying something controversial or even encouraging them to denounce one another to an anonymous hotline for "microaggressions." The majority of students, who aren't especially argumentative or ideological, understandably conclude that the most rational response is to hold their tongue.

[garbon]

The bold is my own, since it directly reflects exactly how I feel, and precisely what happens right her on Languish every single time this issue comes up.

To a great degree, though, the problem lies outside the classroom. Many students have seen classmates shamed and ostracized after they were "called out" on social media for something supposedly offensive. They know that the small minority of their classmates who enjoy acting as ideological enforcers has outsize power. And they see that their colleges often add fuel to the fire by investigating students for saying something controversial or even encouraging them to denounce one another to an anonymous hotline for "microaggressions." The majority of students, who aren't especially argumentative or ideological, understandably conclude that the most rational response is to hold their tongue.

Children ostracizing other students? Never happened before 'cancel culture.'

[Josquius]

When I was in school I remember hearing some girls were goths.
This was a very bad thing.
Meant they were Satan worshippers and killed rabbits for blood sacrifices and god knows what.
Turns out...
They just liked some really crappy teeny pop rock band but to the club music addled (new monkey...) brains of the average kid of my area in the late 90s any music with a guitar made one a goth.

[HVC]

The bold is my own, since it directly reflects exactly how I feel, and precisely what happens right her on Languish every single time this issue comes up.

To a great degree, though, the problem lies outside the classroom. Many students have seen classmates shamed and ostracized after they were "called out" on social media for something supposedly offensive. They know that the small minority of their classmates who enjoy acting as ideological enforcers has outsize power. And they see that their colleges often add fuel to the fire by investigating students for saying something controversial or even encouraging them to denounce one another to an anonymous hotline for "microaggressions." The majority of students, who aren't especially argumentative or ideological, understandably conclude that the most rational response is to hold their tongue.

Children ostracizing other students? Never happened before 'cancel culture.'

Yeah, but that was good old American values ostracization, like race or gender,  not this new fangled one based on ideas and values!



I think cancel culture is mainly over blown and blaming the phenomenon on something new actually makes it harder to combat where it's warranted. 

[crazy canuck]

As the author acknowledges, there are considerable flaws in methodology of the polls he cites, which he simply waves away.

But good click bait for those trying to find justification for their views.