Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds

[Syt]

Yes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?

Possibly. What do you do when your most dangerous enemy suggests peace but proceeds to do something that looks like an aggressive act (and which I assume will be revealed eventually to have been justified in the moment)? Q's scenarios had plenty such challenges for humans to prove how "barbaric" they still were. Overcoming distrust in your mortal enemy might be such a test.

With Q being in there, and Kate Mulgrew already being on Star Trek Prodigy, I wonder if she will be in this season - after all she had several encounters with Q and the Continuum that shaped their existence.

[crazy canuck]

If she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.

[Maladict]

If she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.

Iirc they really didn't like each other back in the day.

[Syt]

If she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.

Iirc they really didn't like each other back in the day.

They've since reconciled, I think.



https://www.facebook.com/thekatemulgrew/photos/look-who-i-saw-backstage-at-stlvjeri-ryan-jerilryan-congrats-on-bringing-seven-b/1110880352442779/

Kate Mulgrew
Autg5u9ufls0st 19, 2r01l1d9  ·
‪Look who I saw backstage at STLV...Jeri Ryan! @jerilryan 😊 Congrats on bringing Seven back on Star Trek: Picard! Interested to see where the journey takes her. 🖖🏻🍀 #startrek #startrekpicard

‬

[Syt]

Actually here's Mulgrew from a few years back:

He got more than he bargained for in Mulgrew's own words, "Let's be very straight about something," said Mulgrew to Goss via Closer Weekly. "This is on me, not Jeri. She came in and did what she was asked to do. No question about that, and she did it very well. It's on me, because I'd hoped against hope that Janeway would be sufficient. That we didn't have to bring a beautiful, sexy girl in. That somehow the power of my command, the vicissitudes of my talent would be sufficient unto the day, because this would really change television, right? That's what dug me the hardest, that to pick up the numbers they did that... That was my interpretation of it. And that hurt me. I found it sort of insulting. And, of course, she embodied the part, this beautiful girl. But we certainly were utterly professional. I had been nothing short of completely professional, and she did her job. Very well! It was a very good idea that she was half Borg, but it's on me. I'm sorry it has to be part of this legacy, and I probably should have comported myself better. I should have been more philosophical about it, but in the moment it was difficult."

From this article: https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/kate-mulgrew.html

[viper37]

Could have been stunning because why kill if the Goal is to assimilate.  Picard ordered self destruct so he realized it was desperate. 

The thing I was thinking about is the odd mention in all the early small talk about redoing the Kobayashi Maru test.  Was this Q's unwinnable test for Picard?

The Kobayashi Maru test was an unwinnable scenario at Star Fleet Academy, which Captain Kirk won by secretly changing the test parameters.  He was supposedly the only person ever to win the scenario.

Yes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?

Let's assume Syt's theory is valid: the Borg Queen is 7 of 9 from the future.

Is she really evil?  Is she trying to communicate by merging with the computers of the fleet?  Is she trying to mount a defense against something else coming from the rift?  Was she sincere in asking for help?

What is perceived as an act of aggression, the attempted assimilation of the fleet could be something else, due to some condition of these Borg.  Maybe the Borg are fleeing from a yet unknown enemy, more powerful than they are, and one that also poses a danger to the Federation.

The 'maru test could be the unwinnable scenario: do nothing and the Borg assimilates the fleet to defend themselves.  Kill the Queen, kill 7 of 9 and doom the Federation to this new enemy.

It's one scenario I could think of, but there are many directions from which this can go.

[Syt]

Also, maybe I'm splitting hairs, but while the queen takes control of the fleet, she's not assimilating anyone, it seems. She's stunning the crew - maybe to assimilate them, but not sure if having a handful more drones is relevant when she commands a fleet (and also has a ginormous ship like she arrived in and which presumably has more than a handful of drones, anyways). Killing or assimilating others seems to be the Borg standard MO, but here she's instead stunning them.

[Maladict]

Actually here's Mulgrew from a few years back:

He got more than he bargained for in Mulgrew's own words, "Let's be very straight about something," said Mulgrew to Goss via Closer Weekly. "This is on me, not Jeri. She came in and did what she was asked to do. No question about that, and she did it very well. It's on me, because I'd hoped against hope that Janeway would be sufficient. That we didn't have to bring a beautiful, sexy girl in. That somehow the power of my command, the vicissitudes of my talent would be sufficient unto the day, because this would really change television, right? That's what dug me the hardest, that to pick up the numbers they did that... That was my interpretation of it. And that hurt me. I found it sort of insulting. And, of course, she embodied the part, this beautiful girl. But we certainly were utterly professional. I had been nothing short of completely professional, and she did her job. Very well! It was a very good idea that she was half Borg, but it's on me. I'm sorry it has to be part of this legacy, and I probably should have comported myself better. I should have been more philosophical about it, but in the moment it was difficult."

From this article: https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/kate-mulgrew.html

Doesn't sound all that professional reading the rest of the article. But good for them to move on.

[Josephus]

Yes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?

Possibly. What do you do when your most dangerous enemy suggests peace but proceeds to do something that looks like an aggressive act (and which I assume will be revealed eventually to have been justified in the moment)? Q's scenarios had plenty such challenges for humans to prove how "barbaric" they still were. Overcoming distrust in your mortal enemy might be such a test.

With Q being in there, and Kate Mulgrew already being on Star Trek Prodigy, I wonder if she will be in this season - after all she had several encounters with Q and the Continuum that shaped their existence.

Which is why the "It is an alt-universe Seven" doesn't make sense, she would likely call for Janeway, no?

[HVC]

Last time the borg were successful against the federation was under the direction of Locutus of Borg. Maybe they've run out of ideas

[viper37]

Which is why the "It is an alt-universe Seven" doesn't make sense, she would likely call for Janeway, no?

It's a show called Picard. 

[Syt]

That was a fun episode.

SPOILERS BELOW THIS POINT!




So this is more of a Yesterday's Enterprise rather than Through a Mirror Darkly situation (enjoyed Q namedropping both titles) where a point of divergence leads to a different outcome.

This point of divergence apparently switched humanity over to the Fanatic Purifiers civic.

Btw, I love that Picard gets coffee (Janeway's signature beverage) instead of tea in this timeline. Works well with the "Janeway the Sadistic Tyrant" meme from SF Debris

Other than that, a fairly standard "figure out where we are and where we go next" story with a mini-heist. Really like the characters and their dynamics by now. Elnor is such a himbo, though. And I enjoyed Picard telling Q that he's too old for this bullshit. (John De Lancie looks AMAZING for 73 years old )

The evil racist Earth government is the Confederation? Subtle, Star Trek, very subtle.

So, new questions:
- What's up with Q? He seems out of sorts. Some lingering effects of the changes in the Q Continuum seen in Voyager?
- Q talks of forgiveness, so I feel this will be the theme for this season? Picard learning to forgive the Borg and let go of his trauma.
- What happens in 2024 that changed the timeline? Trump holding a convention speech in L.A. that makes him win the presidential elections? (Or a similar character winning the election?)
- Who's the "Watcher" in Los Angeles? Could be Guinan (she has her bar in L.A. in 2401, and we know she can tell if the timeline is "off" as seen in Yesterday's Enterprise). Or it could be one of the characters from the double episode where Voyager traveled to 1996 L.A. (with Sarah Silverman as astronomer, and Ed Begley Jr. as evil industrialist exploiting furture tech for his gains, or Braxton, with whom Seven has additional history. His story is confusing, here's the Memory Alpha link. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Braxton )

Can we trust the Borg queen? My guess is: no (see also Voyager's Scorpion double episode which had a similar dilemma). Revising my prediction: Seven kills(?) the Borg Queen to prevent her from doing An Evil, becomes new Mama Borg and then seeks to join the Federation to prevent a bigger disaster.

[Josephus]

All good questions. I initially thought of Guinan as the watcher; but yeah you could very well be right.
Also, are we to assume this is the same Borg Queen we saw in the last STNG movie?
I'm a bit annoyed, though, how she knows so much now that she is no longer connected to the hive.

[Syt]

All good questions. I initially thought of Guinan as the watcher; but yeah you could very well be right.
Also, are we to assume this is the same Borg Queen we saw in the last STNG movie?
I'm a bit annoyed, though, how she knows so much now that she is no longer connected to the hive.

Not sure. It's a different actress for one. And I was always confused by how the Borg Queen "works" after Voyager. There's always one consciousness, but it can be moved to different "hosts"? And she's basically the CPU of the hive?

That she can perceive echos of other timelines ... yeah, I file that under "the plot requires it", though it's possible you could retcon that because in First Contact they used time travel, and maybe they have connections to alternate timelines?

I'm also constantly confused about alternate timelines and realities in Trek. The Mirror Universe is obviously the biggest example. There was a divergent point, and since then Mirror U has done its own thing, with occasional interference from the "main" universe. Ok. But then you have Yesterday's Enterprise or this show. Is it a parallel reality that split off? If the past is "fixed", will it cease to exist? Would there be an alternate way to get back to the "main" timeline, similar to how you can go to the Mirror Universe? Or is the "real" "main" timeline created by altering the past? And I'm starting to get a headache.

I'm reminded of the finale of TNG, All Good Things, where Q sets up a riddle for Picard across three different points in time. I feel this time it might be an even bigger one, in which they have to trace causality through time and across multiple universes.

[viper37]

The evil racist Earth government is the Confederation? Subtle, Star Trek, very subtle.

It's one more case of America's discrimination against Canada.  We're always the bad guys.