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#71

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Legbiter - December 29, 2025, 05:32:42 PM

He tweeted his support for a proscribed terrorist organisation last week. I don't think they should be proscribed, but they were by this government.  It's not just saying dumb shit a decade ago.

This whole saga is a very Yookay moment yes. Every time these US influencers that infest twitter fulminate about "Europe" they really mean the UK. Combine Iranian-regime numbers of online prosecutions with festering communal tensions and perceived 2-tier policing while certain ethnic communities apparently can raid from the hilltops with impunity and one is not particularly surprised by the...wonky state of UK politics. At least if you're going to run an Ottoman millet system where "community leaders" run the show then at least crucify a town or two if they break the social peace to demonstrate the benefits of the system.    

#72

Off the Record / Re: Dead Pool 2025

Last post by Savonarola - December 29, 2025, 04:50:24 PM

I was talking to a friend about Brigitte; for someone acknowledged as a classic film star, she did disappear fairly quickly. I mean, Sophia Loren, at least, was making films till relatively recently. But Bardot?

I think she quit acting in the early 70s when she was still in her 30s (although, from what I've seen of them, her 70s films aren't very good.) 

#73

Off the Record / Re: Dead Pool 2025

Last post by Josephus - December 29, 2025, 04:31:17 PM

I was talking to a friend about Brigitte; for someone acknowledged as a classic film star, she did disappear fairly quickly. I mean, Sophia Loren, at least, was making films till relatively recently. But Bardot?

And there's the right wing kook thing too.

Still she was yummy when I was 2.

#74

Off the Record / Re: TV/Movies Megathread

Last post by Josephus - December 29, 2025, 04:26:55 PM

One Battle After Another. Unwatchable. Quit after 15 minutes.

I'm at an age now, where I rarely make it through any movie longer than 90 minutes; but I did sit through this one. It wasn't great, but I did find it watchable.

#75

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - December 29, 2025, 02:32:05 PM

PS the due diligence isn't about giving him citizenship, if he's entitled he's entitled, it's championing him for how many years without, it seems, even a rudimentary check.

I agree - I meant to Jos post about the Tories not doing DD when he was given citizenship.

#76

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by HVC - December 29, 2025, 02:30:08 PM

PS the due diligence isn't about giving him citizenship, if he's entitled he's entitled, it's championing him for how many years without, it seems, even a rudimentary check.

#77

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - December 29, 2025, 02:24:44 PM

I'd see it that the tories didn't do their due diligence when they granted him citizenship.
Make a case he shouldn't have been granted it fair enough
But stripping someone of their citizenship for saying dumb shit over a decade ago.... That's scary stuff.

I'm a bit mixed.

In my view he was entitled to British citizenship and that exists as a matter of law. It, broadly, shouldn't be up to the state to do due diligence on people entitled to citizenship's applications (although I think there should be more discretion for naturalisation). But I note the Egyptian point on that and would probably look into how it came about as he doesn't seem like someone who'd make an application so I do find it a bit odd.

Once he's a citizen the state should make representations and provide consular support. But I don't think they need to be doing that to the utmost in every case. Repeated governments made this case a priority - I query the due diligence at that point (especially compared with, say, Jimmy Lai). Similarly I query the decision making that had the government debasing itself with their repeated statements of gratitude to a tyrant or that made this a big Christmas news story. As I say I don't think anyone actually investigted. They saw an effective campaign, good coverage on the BBC and Guardian (a barrister I know read the Guardian article on this today and El Fattah's apology and said it reads like a skeleton argument for the defence ) and assumed someone else had actually done the leg work and if there was an issue this would be raised with them. I also think there may be a side of FCDO thinking just gently guiding repeated governments on this.

Having said all that, I am broadly opposed to stripping citizenship from people. I didn't like it when we did it with Jack Letts or Shamima Begum for going to fight for ISIS - but part of that is because I think ultimately they lived in Britain their whole lives. They're our responsibility and our fault and it's not fair for us to dump them on Iraq, Syria or the countries where they're entitled to citizenship. In this case I'm less sure just because the guy never lived in Britain, doesn't seem to have any attachment to the UK and basically seems to have acquired citizenship in order to access consular support - I feel it's less of an abdication of responsibility for him and he does have another citizenship clearly.

But on the fourth (or fifth?) hand I think it's insane that Palestine Action are proscribed. I don't like the way some our speech-based crimes (and non-crime incidents) have developed in recent years (not least because I think it makes it more difficult for us to make a principled argument against regime's like Sisi's - e.g. Starmer criticising a government for jailing a man for sending a tweet). I certainly don't think they should be the basis for deportation or stripping citizenship but they are in the law right now - and luckily there is zero risk that we will ever have a government that is not basically bien pensant liberals who could weaponise those speech laws

#78

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by HVC - December 29, 2025, 01:51:54 PM

I believe for support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and as a dual citizen he could be stripped of his British citizenship - and then deported to Egypt

They should do that. As close as you can get to a political win win in this situation. Your hands are morally clean and you fix a political fuck up.

And whoever is supposed to do due diligence for these MPs should be fired. I'm sure they can get some nice jobs with lobbyist and donors anyway.

#79

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - December 29, 2025, 01:47:09 PM

He tweeted his support for a proscribed terrorist organisation last week. I don't think they should be proscribed, but they were by this government.  It's not just saying dumb shit a decade ago.

#80

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Josquius - December 29, 2025, 01:29:31 PM

I'd see it that the tories didn't do their due diligence when they granted him citizenship.
Make a case he shouldn't have been granted it fair enough
But stripping someone of their citizenship for saying dumb shit over a decade ago.... That's scary stuff.

The main take away I have from the story though is the amazing hypocrisy. More should be made of this