Quote from: Razgovory on January 02, 2026, 12:49:54 PMI get the feeling that a great deal of production in east and south asia is a function of large populations. They had a very productive food system that led to a larger population, the larger population produced more of an item because it was simply larger, but also consumed the items.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 02, 2026, 12:49:54 PMThere is something obviously unbalanced here. If these people were the economic powerhouses of their day, why weren't they sailing to Europe for trade rather than the other way around?
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 02, 2026, 01:13:44 PMFor heathen read ItalianVenice funded a Mamluk navy (and built armaments for it transported over Egypt) to take on the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean - which very nearly worked.
Also we really really should t discount the religious motivation and imaginary world of those European states. Prester John and outflanking the world of Islam to take Jerusalem were significant motivations in the early days. I think our secular age and mind looks for material reasons and views anyone talking about Prester John as either cynical or a credulous fool. Which I think is wrong and misses important parts of the picture.

Venice funded a Mamluk navy (and built armaments for it transported over Egypt) to take on the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean - which very nearly worked.Quote from: Tamas on January 02, 2026, 11:33:28 AMQuote from: The Minsky Moment on January 01, 2026, 12:26:29 PMQuote from: Zoupa on January 01, 2026, 12:24:08 AMTemporary is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. It's been 5 centuries.
Global manufacturing was concentrated in China and India until the late 18th century. So the ascendancy of the world between California and the Elbe runs from about 1750-2010. Not an insignificant period, but in the context of millennia, a couple hundred years or so can still fairly be called temporary and anomalous.
This seems meaningless. When China was the leader in manufacturing, how much did the rest of the world feel that? Not much (please don't come with luxury cloth prices falling or something or other). When Europe got the lead, however, we sure made that felt everywhere.
Obviously it is different now with China colonising Africa and vassalising Russia and the like.
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