Quote from: grumbler on October 24, 2025, 05:15:41 PMQuote from: Tamas on October 24, 2025, 04:57:06 PMWhat should they have to do with each other?
You are the one that quoted Yi and responded, so it's likelier that you know what (if anything) you meant by doing so.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 24, 2025, 03:40:25 PMQuote from: Josquius on October 23, 2025, 09:15:45 AMI think Switzerland presents a decent example here. Very little border controls. Just stroll right in. But illegal immigration numbers are actually rather small as there's not much of a niche for illegal workers.There's a few points in the thread I'll come back to but I just wanted to comment on this.
Switzerland has among the most restrictive citizenship laws in Europe. It is very difficult to become a Swiss citizen particularly if you are "low-skilled". There's been a recent liberalisation which is intended to make it easier for the grandchildren of immigrants to obtain citizenship. Implicit within that is that you can be born and live your entire life in Switzerland without being Swiss - so subject to immigration rules and conditions. The process includes very intrusive (and, from my understanding, deliberately Islamophobic) investigation by the state on whether you've "successfully assimilated" into Swiss society.
There was a Spectator piece in praise of Switzerland which kind of highlighted what that means in practice. The two cases they had were both of people who had lived in Switzerland for over twenty years being deported. One was a Kosovan who had moved to Switzerland as a toddler who, as a young adult, committed a violent crime and was deported. The other was of a family, I think from Albania or Kosovo, who were also deported after over 20 years of residence because of economic inactivity (they'd cost too much in benefits).
There are national and cantonal quotas on the number of migrants. And in the context of successful asylum seekers dispersal across the country as well as policies to avoid the creation of "ghettos" (a bit like in Denmark). In addition Switzerland explicitly links their aid policy to a willingness by a country to take back deportees.
It's not a niche - it's just a country that is very hostile to immigration (in terms of people moving and settling permanently) v temporary/guest-working/expat style migration.
I broadly take the polar opposite view. Have a well-enforced border and remove people who've crossed it illegally - but have transparent, simple rules (for asylum and any other visas); straightforward routes to citizenship (with some stuff around integration - I think language tests and courses on life in Britain etc are useful); and generally the state not intervening too much in the types of lives migrants live as they settle in Britain and become British over time.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 24, 2025, 08:51:40 AMSo every unsolved, unprosecuted murder was lawful?



Page created in 0.024 seconds with 11 queries.