Recent posts

#11

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - November 12, 2025, 04:22:22 PM

I think problem there is European opposition to cherry-picking and as I say the slightly "Middle Kingdom" view of the world from the Berlaymont. The world is split into the Union, candidates and applicants to enter the Union and Third Countries.

I suspect that they may end up with a slightly more flexible approach in the future - possibly prompted by challenges with Ukrainian membership or an increasingly hard-edged world forcing a recognition that some Third Countries (like Russia and China) are hostile, while others (like the UK or Canada) are basically pretty well-aligned, friend-shoring etc. which, I agree, may present the best route for the UK too.

[It was a bit mad.]

#12

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Tonitrus - November 12, 2025, 04:21:57 PM

Why were the children screaming?

Probably because their parents were freaking out.

But still very British when asked about it afterwords...

"It was a bit mad. I don't know how it got on there. It was a whole mess with the ferry crossing. People were really disgruntled."

#13

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Tonitrus - November 12, 2025, 04:17:48 PM

I don't know a damn thing about Wes Streeter, but my outside/Yank quick-take of immediate downsides is that his face seems very punchable.

#14

Off the Record / Re: India - Pakistan Conflict ...

Last post by DGuller - November 12, 2025, 04:16:55 PM

Passed u... nanimously.

#15

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Tamas - November 12, 2025, 04:15:08 PM

Britain will only join the EU on the same track as the United States will do the right thing, that is only after exhausting all the alternatives.  That's a long way off on the present timeline.

The restless shades of Harold MacMillan, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath have entered the chat.

I think that's probably right. However I think the EU would be wise to reject us because I think everyone else in Europe there is broad support across all parties and strands of public opinion for Europe as an idea and the European project. I think even with our most pro-European PMs the only one who was a true believer in European integration was Ted Heath. I don't think that consensus has ever existed in Britain and I think it's unlikely that it ever will - we tried to get, eventually got in and may well try to get in again for want of a better alternative and I think (once again De Gaulle was probably right) Europe would be well off avoiding it because I think the cycle would just repeat.

But I also think it will require a political movement and pro-Europeans don't seem to be organising from what I can see. I can't understand why they haven't taken over the Lib Dems for example.

Also my most rogue opinion/supposition is that if we are to try and re-enter it will happen under a government from the right. I suspect the polarities will flip again and, as in the 60s and 70s, Europe will be seen as a way to introduce more competition and discipline into the British economy. I also think the way that the rest of Europe is going that the right may end up quite attracted to an increasingly "civilisational" Europe defending "European" culture (again as in the 60s and 70s).

From today's standpoint, the UK won't seek re-entry because there is no compelling reason to do so; things will have to get quite a bit worse before that would happen.  The Trump shock could have been a catalyst; but his penchant for the Royals and his entourage's contempt for the EU and its non-Hungarian members pushed the needle the other way.

I'm not sure that would have been enough of a catalyst. A huge factor in Brexit being settled - even as public opnion moves against it - is that people hated the arguments and division around it and the Brexit years under May and Johnson. I think that experience more than the vote itself was the national trauma and I think it would take a lot for people to think it would be worth going through that again.

Also agree, at this stage, maybe the best outcome for the UK is to have a quasi-membership, so as close relationship as possible but without voting rights, so the United States of Europe can eventually form which will make us stronger as well.

#16

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Tamas - November 12, 2025, 04:13:10 PM

Yes and my own criticism but not only not competent but also doesn't really have a politics/set of beliefs. He's just very squishy soft left. So incompetent and rudderless.

Agreed. This is a terrible combo in today's political climate.

#17

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by garbon - November 12, 2025, 04:13:00 PM

Why were the children screaming?

Probably because their parents were freaking out.

 

#18

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - November 12, 2025, 04:08:54 PM

Britain will only join the EU on the same track as the United States will do the right thing, that is only after exhausting all the alternatives.  That's a long way off on the present timeline.

The restless shades of Harold MacMillan, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath have entered the chat.

I think that's probably right. However I think the EU would be wise to reject us because I think everyone else in Europe there is broad support across all parties and strands of public opinion for Europe as an idea and the European project. I think even with our most pro-European PMs the only one who was a true believer in European integration was Ted Heath. I don't think that consensus has ever existed in Britain and I think it's unlikely that it ever will - we tried to get, eventually got in and may well try to get in again for want of a better alternative and I think (once again De Gaulle was probably right) Europe would be well off avoiding it because I think the cycle would just repeat.

But I also think it will require a political movement and pro-Europeans don't seem to be organising from what I can see. I can't understand why they haven't taken over the Lib Dems for example.

Also my most rogue opinion/supposition is that if we are to try and re-enter it will happen under a government from the right. I suspect the polarities will flip again and, as in the 60s and 70s, Europe will be seen as a way to introduce more competition and discipline into the British economy. I also think the way that the rest of Europe is going that the right may end up quite attracted to an increasingly "civilisational" Europe defending "European" culture (again as in the 60s and 70s).

From today's standpoint, the UK won't seek re-entry because there is no compelling reason to do so; things will have to get quite a bit worse before that would happen.  The Trump shock could have been a catalyst; but his penchant for the Royals and his entourage's contempt for the EU and its non-Hungarian members pushed the needle the other way.

I'm not sure that would have been enough of a catalyst. A huge factor in Brexit being settled - even as public opnion moves against it - is that people hated the arguments and division around it and the Brexit years under May and Johnson. I think that experience more than the vote itself was the national trauma and I think it would take a lot for people to think it would be worth going through that again.

#19

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Maladict - November 12, 2025, 04:05:45 PM

Back in the day the school bus we were taking a daytrip on was playing shitty VHS tapes and suddenly a porn movie came on. The bus went so quiet the driver immediately realized what had happened 

#20

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Valmy - November 12, 2025, 03:55:38 PM

So we all thought no British government could be as incompetent as the Tories and Labour was like: hold my Newcastle?