Damn, what a pitiful way to go.
Click for pics
http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2013/05/24/an_indian_lake_surrounded_by_hundreds_of_ancient_skeletons_the_surprise.html?wpisrc=obinsite
QuoteSkeleton Lake of Roopkund, India. The Surprise Is What Killed Them ...
By Atlas Obscura
Posted Friday, May 24, 2013, at 7:30 AM
In 1942 a British forest guard in Roopkund, India, made an alarming discovery. More than three miles above sea level, he stumbled across a frozen lake surrounded by hundreds of human skeletons. That summer, the melting ice revealed even more remains, floating in the water and lying haphazardly around the lake's edges.
Since this was the height of World War II, there were fears that the skeletons might belong to Japanese soldiers who had died of exposure while sneaking through India. The British government, terrified of a Japanese land invasion, sent a team of investigators to determine whether this was true. Upon examination they realized these bones weren't Japanese soldiers at all, but of a much much older vintage. But what killed them? Many theories were put forth, including an epidemic, landslide, and ritual suicide. For six decades, no one was able to shed light on the mystery of "Skeleton Lake."
In 2004 a scientific expedition offered the first plausible explanation of the mysterious deaths. The answer was stranger than anyone had guessed.
All of the bodies were dated to about 850 AD. DNA evidence indicated that there were two distinct groups of people killed near the lake: one a family or tribe of closely related individuals, and a second, shorter group. Rings, spears, leather shoes, and bamboo staves were found, leading experts to believe that the group was comprised of pilgrims heading through the valley with the help of local porters.
Analysis of skulls showed that, no matter their stature or position, all of the people died in a similar way: from blows to the head. However, the short, deep cracks in the skulls appeared to be the result not of weapons but of something round. The bodies had wounds only on their heads and shoulders, indicating the blows came from directly above. The scientists reached an unexpected conclusion: The hundreds of travelers all died from a sudden and severe freak hailstorm.
Hail is rarely lethal. But trapped in a valley without shelter, the 9th-century travelers could not escape the sudden barrage of rock-hard, cricket-ball-size spheres of ice. Twelve hundred years after the storm, the green-tinged bones of the hail victims still ring the lake, preserved alongside their tattered shoes
More photos of Skeleton Lake can be seen on Atlas Obscua.
Neat. :)
Have they done hailstones as a cause of death on CSI yet? :hmm:
Quote from: Brazen on May 30, 2013, 05:25:54 AM
Have they done hailstones as a cause of death on CSI yet? :hmm:
They will now.
I guess it's impossible for human beings to make something round to crash someone's skull.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 06:54:46 AM
I guess it's impossible for human beings to make something round to crash someone's skull.
True but drop them directly from above? Perhaps a Dark Ages Airforce of some sort :P
WTF? It wasn't surprise that killed them, it was hailstorm.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 06:54:46 AM
I guess it's impossible for human beings to make something round to crash someone's skull.
They would have to be large, dense rocks, and they would be scattered around the bones. Since they aren't, one has to guess that whatever was large enough and dense enough to kill them (and that came from above) was also something that could fade away... or melt.
That is irrefutable proof of ancient aliens.
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 30, 2013, 09:36:18 AM
That is irrefutable proof of ancient aliens.
Naw, it's time-travelling Japanese soldiers. Sneaking into India more than a millenia before WW2. :D
Quote from: Malthus on May 30, 2013, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 30, 2013, 09:36:18 AM
That is irrefutable proof of ancient aliens.
Naw, it's time-travelling Japanese soldiers. Sneaking into India more than a millenia before WW2. :D
And where do you think the Samurai learned how to make such advanced weapons and armor? Ancient Aliens! :duh:
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2013, 08:47:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 06:54:46 AM
I guess it's impossible for human beings to make something round to crash someone's skull.
True but drop them directly from above? Perhaps a Dark Ages Airforce of some sort :P
flying dinosaurs surviving in a remote valley and domesticated by human beings intent on protecting their secret at all costs.
Hail storm, pfft. Why invent such things when there are more plausible theories?
Surely alien worlds have their own "extinct" dinosaur equivalents? Most likely one of those did it.
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 09:09:35 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 06:54:46 AM
I guess it's impossible for human beings to make something round to crash someone's skull.
They would have to be large, dense rocks, and they would be scattered around the bones. Since they aren't, one has to guess that whatever was large enough and dense enough to kill them (and that came from above) was also something that could fade away... or melt.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOWSp0jt.jpg&hash=32b52d0f6d91de030177c1a46aebdb7c3fb85574)
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
OCD
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
:mellow: Do I have to explain how a mace works?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
:mellow: Do I have to explain how a mace works?
Please explain how a mace works by coming down straight down from the sky.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
:mellow: Do I have to explain how a mace works?
No need, Raz. :) I think you've said enough.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
:mellow: Do I have to explain how a mace works?
Please go on. :)
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2013, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Impressive that someone (or someones) could rain those down and kill hundreds of people at once, and then go pick them up so that no one would know what happened.
:mellow: Do I have to explain how a mace works?
Please explain how a mace works by coming down straight down from the sky.
By swinging it down on top of someone's head. Here's a better question: If they were killed by hail how come there were no other places of the body hit except head and shoulders? Assuming the article is correct, (a risky assumption) why are there no arms and hands broken as people tried to protect themselves? Once someone is hit in the head it's likely that person will fall down prone. Why are there no broken bones on the rest of the body from subsequent hits?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:42:35 PM
By swinging it down on top of someone's head. Here's a better question: If they were killed by hail how come there were no other places of the body hit except head and shoulders? Assuming the article is correct, (a risky assumption) why are there no arms and hands broken as people tried to protect themselves? Once someone is hit in the head it's likely that person will fall down prone. Why are there no broken bones on the rest of the body from subsequent hits?
So they were attacked by somebody so high every single blow came straight down on the shoulders and head with no signs of struggle of any sort? And this executioner did so with numerous light taps instead of just shattering their bones for some reason? And these people came down, killed them all, and didn't take any of their stuff?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:42:35 PM
By swinging it down on top of someone's head. Here's a better question: If they were killed by hail how come there were no other places of the body hit except head and shoulders? Assuming the article is correct, (a risky assumption) why are there no arms and hands broken as people tried to protect themselves? Once someone is hit in the head it's likely that person will fall down prone. Why are there no broken bones on the rest of the body from subsequent hits?
That argument would be more effective if it were used to argue against it being a human weapon.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2013, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:42:35 PM
By swinging it down on top of someone's head. Here's a better question: If they were killed by hail how come there were no other places of the body hit except head and shoulders? Assuming the article is correct, (a risky assumption) why are there no arms and hands broken as people tried to protect themselves? Once someone is hit in the head it's likely that person will fall down prone. Why are there no broken bones on the rest of the body from subsequent hits?
So they were attacked by somebody so high every single blow came straight down on the shoulders and head with no signs of struggle of any sort? And this executioner did so with numerous light taps instead of just shattering their bones for some reason? And these people came down, killed them all, and didn't take any of their stuff?
Where are you getting the "light taps" thing? Anyway, I didn't say they died from mace attacks, I only suggest it as an alternate theory. A much more plausible theory. The motive of an attack I could only guess at, but it's not all difficult to imagine that the people were executed by a second group of people. There are lots of potential reason why the attackers wouldn't want to loot the bodies. They didn't want to be identified as the killers, religious taboo, they were scared off before they could take everything, etc.
This strikes me as more plausable scenario then "giant balls of ice fall from the sky only pinpointing people's skulls". Hell, it's possible they died non violently and what the researchers interpreted as trauma injuries are actually the results of compression and age.
Here's another theory. The people who came up with this theory were commission by National Geographic for a television show, and working for a TV show they chose to showcase the most sensational and eccentric theory.
Quote from: Maximus on May 30, 2013, 05:01:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 04:42:35 PM
By swinging it down on top of someone's head. Here's a better question: If they were killed by hail how come there were no other places of the body hit except head and shoulders? Assuming the article is correct, (a risky assumption) why are there no arms and hands broken as people tried to protect themselves? Once someone is hit in the head it's likely that person will fall down prone. Why are there no broken bones on the rest of the body from subsequent hits?
That argument would be more effective if it were used to argue against it being a human weapon.
Not if it's an execution. It's still an excellent argument against hail. Why aren't there broken ribs and arms? Wouldn't you expect that from hail hitting a prone body or a person trying to protect themselves?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 05:03:51 PM
Where are you getting the "light taps" thing?
From the description of the wounds.
QuoteThis strikes me as more plausable scenario then "giant balls of ice fall from the sky only pinpointing people's skulls".
Well if you are walking through a valley that is what is pointing upwards.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 05:06:49 PM
Why aren't there broken ribs and arms? Wouldn't you expect that from hail hitting a prone body or a person trying to protect themselves?
That is why the theory is dependent on it being a sudden and freak hailstorm.
How long did the hailstorm last? Did it just last for a second, and end before the victims could fall?
Quote from: DGuller on May 30, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
How long did the hailstorm last? Did it just last for a second, and end before the victims could fall?
Well they could hardly hold up their arms if they were dead and they were probably wearing clothes walking high up in the mountains which would have stopped there from being injuries on other parts of their bodies.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2013, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 30, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
How long did the hailstorm last? Did it just last for a second, and end before the victims could fall?
Well they could hardly hold up their arms if they were dead and they were probably wearing clothes walking high up in the mountains which would have stopped there from being injuries on other parts of their bodies.
What I'm suggesting is that someone whacked on the head would probably collapse, and expose other parts of the body to the hailstorm. A post-mortem hail strike wouldn't leave bruises, but it would still break a bone, I would think. I doubt that clothes would protect them, since they did have injuries on their shoulders, which I presume were covered.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2013, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 05:06:49 PM
Why aren't there broken ribs and arms? Wouldn't you expect that from hail hitting a prone body or a person trying to protect themselves?
That is why the theory is dependent on it being a sudden and freak hailstorm.
So enormous hailstones zero in on people's skulls and kill several hundred people instantly in one volley? It's an extraordinary claim, without much in the way of proof.
I'm not sharing the "Lightly tapping" interpretation.
It would seem that the original concept of hailstorms come from TV show done nearly 10 years ago http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/1476074/Giant-hail-killed-more-than-200-in-Himalayas.html (Leave it to Slate and Tim to give us the most up-to-date stories).
Raz, Slate said it was hail. I don't know why you are arguing this.
It's interesting to note the differences between the Telegraph article and the Slate one. In the Slate article all the people were hit on the head. In the Telegraph article most had fractured skulls.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 30, 2013, 05:33:57 PM
Raz, Slate said it was hail. I don't know why you are arguing this.
:lol:
Oddly enough (at least until I see the physical anthropology analysis of the wounds), I am with Raz on this one. One would think that falling bodies would have wounds with blunt trauma on extremities as well if it were hail. Unless it was an immediate wall of hail that lasted a second, it should have also left marks on the prone dead.
:hmm: What bodies? All that's left at this point are scattered bones, right?
btw I took a look at this lake on Google Earth and these people must have been crazy as shit to hike through there... :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on May 30, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
:hmm: What bodies? All that's left at this point are scattered bones, right?
btw I took a look at this lake on Google Earth and these people must have been crazy as shit to hike through there... :huh:
The skeletal system is usually inside of bodies, which would have been there if the people just died. Following this line of reasoning, blunt trauma would have happened to the bodies (and seen in the skeletal system that remains).
Still, this is Slate, and failing the physical anthropological examination I have to assume the internet article is perhaps a bit...sparse on the details.
I confess. I went back in time and shit in their food.
Quote from: PDH on May 30, 2013, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 30, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
:hmm: What bodies? All that's left at this point are scattered bones, right?
btw I took a look at this lake on Google Earth and these people must have been crazy as shit to hike through there... :huh:
The skeletal system is usually inside of bodies, which would have been there if the people just died. Following this line of reasoning, blunt trauma would have happened to the bodies (and seen in the skeletal system that remains).
Still, this is Slate, and failing the physical anthropological examination I have to assume the internet article is perhaps a bit...sparse on the details.
I thought of execution first, but if it was indeed an execution, why leave them as they lay? Why leave the bodies right on the spot, no mass grave, no taking their weapons&stuff?
Raz it's very unlikely that 9th century Indians were all killed by a maniacal mace attack from a 19th century Albanian tryrant.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 30, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
I confess. I went back in time and shit in their food.
None of your normal types would leave that kind of marks on the bones.
It must have been a full strenght company of balearic slingers, with at least an experience level of 3.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2013, 05:07:11 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 30, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
I confess. I went back in time and shit in their food.
None of your normal types would leave that kind of marks on the bones.
Well that's why we don't see evidence of this more often.
Quote from: Siege on June 03, 2013, 06:42:02 PM
It must have been a full strenght company of balearic slingers, with at least an experience level of 3.
:lol: :nerd: